Detection of Mycotoxins in Patients with CFS

pemone

Senior Member
Messages
448
There is one done by Biotrek for $185 - I did it through americanmedicallabs.com. They used to use Realtime Labs but switched to Biotrek some time after July 2014 (when I first used them).

The Biotrek test is similar to RTL in the sense that it measures ochratoxin, aflatoxin and trichotheces. Additionally it measures citrinin.

I don't have too much information about it though, e.g. how did they get their normal range and whether the results are measured in relation to creatinine.

Can you give a URL to the test you found? The only one I could locate was a mold allergen test:
http://www.americanmedicallabs.com/test/allergen-profile-mold/

and that is not what we want here. I found this marketing blurb on the test:
http://www.americanmedicallabs.com/mycotoxin-test/

but I didn't see how to order from that.
 

psz

Messages
21
Can you give a URL to the test you found? The only one I could locate was a mold allergen test:
http://www.americanmedicallabs.com/test/allergen-profile-mold/

and that is not what we want here. I found this marketing blurb on the test:
http://www.americanmedicallabs.com/mycotoxin-test/

but I didn't see how to order from that.

I haven't found a URL for Biotrek. AML's web site doesn't seem to be up to date, so best just e-mail them and ask for urine mycotoxin test.
 
Messages
52
Seems like my staph infection is back in my sinus almost one year after successful treatment with BEG and rifampin. What have others found helpful in keeping these nasty infections at bay? I am awaiting confirmation from swab test then will see what treatments are best. I'm still keeping up with the ampho B - back to once very other day now.
 

Ifish

Senior Member
Messages
182
We had a very interesting visit with Brewer a couple of weeks ago. There were three of us with consecutive appointments at the end of the day, so we spent quite a bit of time with him.

The fact that Ampho B is an effective treatment is now a forgone conclusion. Although I did not ask him this specifically, it does not sound like a significant number of patients have achieved a full recovery or a nearly full recovery, at least so far. It does sound like many patients have very substantial recoveries, maybe something in the 60 to 80% range, but keep in mind this is my own impression, and not something he stated specifically.

We all know that CFS patients have immune systems that are either under active or over active or some combination of both. Reduced natural killer cell function is very well documented. Brewer stated during our meeting that many of his CFS patients also have diagnosed autoimmune disorders . The looming question is whether the immune system can normalize after mold colonization is controlled and mycotoxin output is minimized. He stated this is a complete unknown. He feels that recovery of a suppressed immune system seems more likely than a calming down of an overreactive immune system, but either is possible.

When he mentioned this to me, I thought of the Rituximab study and asked if he thought this medication is effective in some patients because it calms down an overreactive immune system . He said that he be lived so. Now I can see how neatly this fits together: A patient is exposed to mold. The patient develops mold colonization. This colonization produces mycotoxins. The mycotoxins throw the immune system out of balance causing either a suppressed immune system or autoimmune disease. In autoimmune patients, Rituximab apparently suppresses the overactive immune system and the patient feels better. It would seem that if the body is still producing mycotoxins, the effect would be temporary. It might be the case that Rituximab could be permanently effective if the mycotoxins are first controlled or eliminated.

Brewer is now keenly interested natural killer cell function. Many of his patients (me included), are documented to have low to extremely low NK cell function. He has uncovered research showing that ochhratoxin A is highly suppressive of NK cell function and that tricothecenes are suppressive of NK cell function to a lesser extent. He is interesting in retesting his patients over time to see whether NK cell function will eventually recover.

Brewer is now looking beyond Ampho B treatment, and is contemplating several possible preliminary research studies. One study would involve documenting the effect of natural killer cell function post treatment. The effectiveness of atomized Nystantin is another possible study.

Brewer also mentioned a third possible study on the effect of near infrared sauna on the release of mycotoxins from the body. It sounds like a study might come together in the upcoming months. He is now squarely of the opinion that this is far and away the best method for mycotoxin elimination. Generally he and other physicians have been seeing mycotoxin elimination increase anywhere from a minimum of 2 to 3 times higher up to 10 times higher or more after the use of infrared sauna. He recommends patient do the sauna every day they can, with daily saunas being ideal. He likes to see patients spend about 30 minutes in the sauna at a temperature of about 120 to 125 degrees Fahrenheit. He feels the only realistic way to do this consistently is with an in home sauna. (I should mention I recently found plans for an inexpensive home built infrared sauna which I can track down and forward to anyone who is interested.)

Brewer has also indicated there is some anecdotal evidence that hyperbaric oxygen treatment might be an effective method of detoxing mycotoxins. It might seem impractical and cost prohibitive, but could be a worthwhile method if it can be used to eliminate mycotoxins at a highly accelerated rate.

I know there is now a second lab that is offering mycotoxtin testing. I don't know if it is the real deal or not. I did ask Brewer about the legitimacy of RTL. He stated that RTL's mycotoxin testing has undergone "extensive validation" but he did not elaborate in any detail and I didn't ask him to.

Brewer anticipates RTL will soon offer gliotoxin testing. It is appearing more and more that aflotoxin is not playing a significant role with his patients and that gliotoxin testing is more important.

Brewer has indicated a desire to publish as much as possible in the future which will hopefully lead to more research and larger studies.
 
Messages
52

The fact that Ampho B is an effective treatment is now a forgone conclusion. Although I did not ask him this specifically, it does not sound like a significant number of patients have achieved a full recovery or a nearly full recovery, at least so far. It does sound like many patients have very substantial recoveries, maybe something in the 60 to 80% range, but keep in mind this is my own impression, and not something he stated specifically.



Are the patients who have had this level of recovery still taking Ampho B? I wonder if after stopping the therapy people are able to maintain their recovery or whether they start regressing?
 

Ifish

Senior Member
Messages
182
The fact that Ampho B is an effective treatment is now a forgone conclusion. Although I did not ask him this specifically, it does not sound like a significant number of patients have achieved a full recovery or a nearly full recovery, at least so far. It does sound like many patients have very substantial recoveries, maybe something in the 60 to 80% range, but keep in mind this is my own impression, and not something he stated specifically.

Are the patients who have had this level of recovery still taking Ampho B? I wonder if after stopping the therapy people are able to maintain their recovery or whether they start regressing?

We did not talk about this during our recent meeting. We did have prior discussions. Brewer had indicated this is an unknown. He had some patients who did really well, then stopped the Ampho B and slowly relapsed. He had some others that seemed to be maintaining off of Ampho B, but they weren't off long enough to determine if they could remain off of it.
 

Ifish

Senior Member
Messages
182
I had a request for information about building an infrared sauna and I thought I would post it here. You really only need three things: A chair to sit on, a box to hold in the heat, and lamps with infrared bulbs. A fourth item that would be great to have is a timer for the lamps so they will automatically shut off when you want them to.

Here is a more elaborate plan: http://drlwilson.com/SAUNAS/SAUNA PLANS.htm

Here is a simpler plan. Note that you can simply buy clip on lamps: http://www.newbalancenutrition.com/infrared-sauna.html

Several years ago, I purchased an eco-sauna which is an earlier version of this one. My sauna has the bulbs on the end rather than overhead: http://nearinfraredsauna.com/product/eco-sauna/

A couple of things should be noted. These plans are all for near (nir) infrared rather than far (fir) infrared which is more common. My guess is that the distinction is not important. Both nir and fir emit heat and light that falls on the infrared scale. After talking with Brewer, I feel the amount of heat is the most important thing. However, since all his experience is with patients using nir infrared, I decided to switch out the fir bulbs for some nir bulbs I found on Amazon. The bulbs are exactly the same in appearance and use 250 watts each.

If I were building one today I would go with an eco-sauna type box for two reasons. First, the silver walls are actually insulation material that can be easily found. The second thing is that the box has a big footprint. This does mean it requires four bulbs instead of three, but it also allowed me to substitute a wood lawn chair for the stool. It is far more comfortable to sit on.
 
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cigana

Senior Member
Messages
1,095
Location
UK
We all know that CFS patients have immune systems that are either under active or over active or some combination of both. Reduced natural killer cell function is very well documented. Brewer stated during our meeting that many of his CFS patients also have diagnosed autoimmune disorders . The looming question is whether the immune system can normalize after mold colonization is controlled and mycotoxin output is minimized. He stated this is a complete unknown. He feels that recovery of a suppressed immune system seems more likely than a calming down of an overreactive immune system, but either is possible.

When he mentioned this to me, I thought of the Rituximab study and asked if he thought this medication is effective in some patients because it calms down an overreactive immune system . He said that he be lived so. Now I can see how neatly this fits together: A patient is exposed to mold. The patient develops mold colonization. This colonization produces mycotoxins. The mycotoxins throw the immune system out of balance causing either a suppressed immune system or autoimmune disease. In autoimmune patients, Rituximab apparently suppresses the overactive immune system and the patient feels better. It would seem that if the body is still producing mycotoxins, the effect would be temporary. It might be the case that Rituximab could be permanently effective if the mycotoxins are first controlled or eliminated.
@SOC mentioned the possibility of 2 subsets along these lines in another thread.
 

Skiii

Senior Member
Messages
122
Thanks for the updates, iFish.

I still have not recommenced treatment (upon a fourth head cold this winter). I did however, buy a portable FIR sauna. I used it a couple times last week, and it did help with muscle tightness and achiness. I started having side effects, which at first I thought was unusually bad PMS- moodiness, very bad irritability, not being able to regulate my temperature. I was naive enough to then get in it again for a long hot sweat. That left me with some similar symptoms coupled with a bad lingering headache for several days, a little nausea, and feeling the same type of anxiety I feel on the treatment. I'm fairly certain it was all from detoxing to hard with the sauna (even though I tried to take it easy). I suppose if I was better with taking binders it might help.

I know this is the right path for me. But I have a hard time feeling like I will ever make it through this treatment, and I know I'm one of the relatively healthy ones.
 
Messages
67
@Ifish - thanks so much for your updates.

Did Brewer mention anything about the importance of the chelating px? I'm experiencing much less inflammation without it (just using nystatin every other day for now) but I want to make sure I'm getting the biofilms removed somehow.

Last time I spoke with Brewer, he mentioned patients improving without the chelating px but I don't think that is the norm.

Thanks again! :)
 

Ema

Senior Member
Messages
4,729
Location
Midwest USA
I thought was unusually bad PMS- moodiness, very bad irritability, not being able to regulate my temperature. I was naive enough to then get in it again for a long hot sweat. That left me with some similar symptoms coupled with a bad lingering headache for several days, a little nausea, and feeling the same type of anxiety I feel on the treatment. I'm fairly certain it was all from detoxing to hard with the sauna (even though I tried to take it easy).
Are you sure it isn't deranged electrolytes (specifically low sodium) due to sweating and reduced adrenal function? Those symptoms sure sound like low cortisol to me.
 

Ifish

Senior Member
Messages
182
@Ifish - thanks so much for your updates.

Did Brewer mention anything about the importance of the chelating px? I'm experiencing much less inflammation without it (just using nystatin every other day for now) but I want to make sure I'm getting the biofilms removed somehow.

Last time I spoke with Brewer, he mentioned patients improving without the chelating px but I don't think that is the norm.

Thanks again! :)
He has some patients that are improving without it. He seems more inclined to think it is not necessary, but not yet ready to reach any final conclusion.
 

Forebearance

Senior Member
Messages
568
Location
Great Plains, US
Thank you so much for the report and the sauna info, Ifish!

I agree that Dr. Brewer's theory fits together with other things we know about ME/CFS. An internal source of mold toxins could also cause the inflammatory cascade that Dr. Shoemaker has described.

Like a lot of treatments for our illness, I suspect that this treatment could cure patients who have already taken care of every other issue. If you already have your hormones supported, viruses under control, bacteria supressed, your antioxidants and minerals and vitamins in place, and have gotten into a less toxic living situation, then this may be the last piece of the puzzle. I think that that may be true for me. Those of us who have been sick for a long time have been working on every angle for so long.

I really hope Dr. B will publish a Nystatin study. That would be awesome!
It would be interesting to find out what goes on with Natural Killer cells after this treatment too.
Forebearance
 
Messages
67
Hi guys. I'm going through a phase with a lot of rashes and itching following sauna or Epsom salt baths (these have never caused this in the past). The sauna is also causing nausea after about 20 minutes. The rashes are not related to supplements or food so I'm inclined to think its a detox sign... They last for about an hour after sauna/bath and are just on my arms.

I went back through some old posts and noticed others reporting rashes on the Brewer protocol. Did you find these were made worse by sauna?

I plan to retest my mycotoxin panel this month and if my theory proves correct, my levels *should* be higher. I'm almost nine months into treatment so I'd love to see some progress soon!
 

Forebearance

Senior Member
Messages
568
Location
Great Plains, US
I just had my annual thermogram of my head today (to keep an eye on my thyroid nodules) and this time it showed my sinuses draining like crazy. In previous years thermograms had shown my sinuses were inflamed. So I thought that was interesting!
 

sianrecovery

Senior Member
Messages
828
Location
Manchester UK
I haven't read the whole thread - it came up when I was doing my due diligence on the Real Time Labs myco toxin test, which I was going to send off tomorrow. There seems to be some pretty troubling stuff on the reliability of the labs owner, a pathologist called Dennis Hooper. I'm not going to take the test as a result of what I've read so far.
 

Skiii

Senior Member
Messages
122
@JCamp are you showering right after sweating? My doctor said to do it to rinse the toxins off. You might want to do it even after an epsom bath.
 
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