Degradation of B12 shots after opening a new box

[nilsoskaraxel]

Hi y’all,

My need for methylcobalamin is straightforward. When I inject a fresh and potent vial of B12, 90 to 100 % of my neurological symptoms resolve. Five hours later, they return, and I need a new shot.

I’ve done everything in my power to enhance my B12 retention/storage (I know Fredds’s protocol like the back of my hand), but this is where I am right now. That’s not what I’m asking you to comment on. My problem is the following:

If every injection was of the same quality, I could have a nice and even supply of B12 into my system and basically be symptom free as long as I took my shots.

However, what I’ve noticed and replicated over and over for several years is that the B12 gradually degrades after I’ve opened a new box. They come in lightproof 10-packs, with transparent vials.

What I do to minimize light exposure and temperature fluctuations is that when I open a new box, I go into my dark walk-in closet, which is about 95 % light proof (I can’t see anything in there, but there is a minimal speck of light at the bottom of the door); I transfer each vial into a separate, lightproof aluminum box; I put the ten aluminum boxes in a cooling bag with cooling packs; and I put the cooling bag on the coolest shelf in my fridge.

This takes about two minutes, and it’s the method that yields the least degree of B12 degradation. All other handling procedures have been catastrophic in comparison.

And yet, only the first two or three shots from each box are of good quality. Shot four to six (day two after opening a new box) are slightly degraded, and shots seven to ten (day three) have lost about half of their potency if not more. This means that I slip into B12 deficiency every third day or so, which is no fun.

I’ve replicated this hundreds of times and I always end up with the same result.

Please note that it’s not a matter of the light exposure that occurs when filling up each shot prior to injecting. That’s not a problem, because the first few vials are flawless when prepared that way. The one and only variable that is linkable to the degradation is whether the box is newly opened or not.

I’ve been in touch with the manufacturer and they refer to stability studies that claim outrageous sturdiness of the medicine. Purportedly, their product can endure 15 minutes of light exposure and 14 days in room temperature, which is nonsense according to my in vivo experiences.

If you have any idea how I can make the most of each vial and prevent the degradation, I would be immensely grateful. I would even be happy to send a donation if anyone solves this mystery. It would mean the world to me.

Best regards,

Oskar, Stockholm

 

[Learner1]

I keep mine in the refrigerator, and have had no problems at all. Perhaps it's the supplier? Maybe it hasn't been stored properly before it gets to you or there's something about their process? Could you possibly try switching to a different supply? I know there are multiple manufacturers / growers of MB12.

 

[Freddd]

Hi y’all,

My need for methylcobalamin is straightforward. When I inject a fresh and potent vial of B12, 90 to 100 % of my neurological symptoms resolve. Five hours later, they return, and I need a new shot.

I’ve done everything in my power to enhance my B12 retention/storage (I know Fredds’s protocol like the back of my hand), but this is where I am right now. That’s not what I’m asking you to comment on. My problem is the following:

If every injection was of the same quality, I could have a nice and even supply of B12 into my system and basically be symptom free as long as I took my shots.

However, what I’ve noticed and replicated over and over for several years is that the B12 gradually degrades after I’ve opened a new box. They come in lightproof 10-packs, with transparent vials.

What I do to minimize light exposure and temperature fluctuations is that when I open a new box, I go into my dark walk-in closet, which is about 95 % light proof (I can’t see anything in there, but there is a minimal speck of light at the bottom of the door); I transfer each vial into a separate, lightproof aluminum box; I put the ten aluminum boxes in a cooling bag with cooling packs; and I put the cooling bag on the coolest shelf in my fridge.

This takes about two minutes, and it’s the method that yields the least degree of B12 degradation. All other handling procedures have been catastrophic in comparison.

And yet, only the first two or three shots from each box are of good quality. Shot four to six (day two after opening a new box) are slightly degraded, and shots seven to ten (day three) have lost about half of their potency if not more. This means that I slip into B12 deficiency every third day or so, which is no fun.

I’ve replicated this hundreds of times and I always end up with the same result.

Please note that it’s not a matter of the light exposure that occurs when filling up each shot prior to injecting. That’s not a problem, because the first few vials are flawless when prepared that way. The one and only variable that is linkable to the degradation is whether the box is newly opened or not.

I’ve been in touch with the manufacturer and they refer to stability studies that claim outrageous sturdiness of the medicine. Purportedly, their product can endure 15 minutes of light exposure and 14 days in room temperature, which is nonsense according to my in vivo experiences.

If you have any idea how I can make the most of each vial and prevent the degradation, I would be immensely grateful. I would even be happy to send a donation if anyone solves this mystery. It would mean the world to me.

Best regards,

Oskar, Stockholm

Hi Oskar,

I ran into a similar result. I was doing a whole series of trials after I found out that my B12 was only effective for 1/4 to 1/2 a month, in the same multi-dose vial. I know the same studies on "durability" or lifetime of MeCbl etc, and breakdown percentage by temperature up to six months and so on. I was a photographer and I still had an old deep red safe light, the kind used for "ortho" (insensitive to red) film. Use it for all handling.\

The first thing I did was wrap the vials in aluminum foil. Then made so cuts of heavy duty aluminum foil about the size of a playing card just exactly the size to full length wrap an insulin 1 cc short needle 30 gauge syringe. That worked for me. I will tell you why. I also stored it in the frig. MeCbl is not particularly sensitive to break down AdoCbl breaks down very quickly. In some countries that have it ship it in a vial, dry. Then a preloaded syringe with sterile saline to inject the water into the vial and mix fresh. Instructions were to discard or use by 5 days. Exposing MeCbl in a syringe to light increases the light intensity per volume is much more intense, perhaps somewhere between 10 to 100 times more intense

Let's talk about MeCbl breakdown. It, like CyCbl and AdoCbl break down via photolytic degeneration to HyCbl in a equilibrium with AquaCbl.

They are correct on the sturdiness of MeCbl. However, they don't know what their test results actually mean and what the in vivo.

Did you ever have an injection of HyCbl or CyCbl? They both need to be converted to MeCbl to be useful and do it's work as a first step in making a cell. If your body had a b12 system in your body that worked perfectly according to old theory, CyCbl and HyCbl would be identical in effects as MeCbl as all of them "should be converted to cob[ii], the catalytic form of B12. So therefore HyCbl should be effective and identical.

My experience does not fit that at all. For me, CyCbl and HyCbl and degenerated MeCbl (HyCbl) and degenerated AdoCbl HyCbl) do not work to make cells. There are lots of reasons possible from genes to wrong folate forms that don't work for you like methylfolate,

Consider your skin, all of it. Is it smooth? Are there acne type lesions on scalp or face or anywhere? Are there irritated follicles, red bumps, etc, just minor stuff? Split finger tips, cracks at corners of nails, cracks at corners of mouth, sores in mouth, IBS, neurological symptoms including paresthesias (false feelings) in legs or arms, "beef-red" burning tongue. In my experience these can come on fast and be corrected almost as fast. [Theoretical}

Each of these cells that are failed in a cluster is a cell that was trying to reproduce with HyCbl, CyCbl, and AdoCbl in the place of MeCbl or cob[ii]. It happens at random. If 1% has degenerated to HyCbl I get enough get the itching start of scalp acne, much more widespread at higher percentages. What happens is that (hypothetical) the not useful cbl is attempted to work doesn't succeed and the methylfolate waiting to react with the cob[ii]/MeCbl gets kicked out and that is methyltrap. No methylation occurs, cell never finished cell the lesion(s) form.

When this happens in some places I've had demyelinations or other kinds of damage depending where in body. It is better to have no cell than failed cells lesions in my opinion. Having 1% of cells being made fail. that's a lot of bad cells scattered all around. And if that is 0.1% or .01% or 0.001% etc does that matter? that is a lot of unplanned damage and inflammation. Good luck There are no guarantees, just hypothesizes based on 17 years of experience and systematic series of injections. Good luck.

Sublingual and sub labial MeCbl can be absorbed by TransCobalamin-Li in the mouth and getting to the brain starting in 5 minutes and one can absorb 1 mg from a 5 mg tablet in 1 hour or less. How fast do you see B12 out your urine? If it happens 1-2 hours after injection or 8-18 hours until it shows in urine happens becasue a person has grown more TCR-Li (range maybe 100 mcg to 20-30mg) daily by taking Lithium orotate and titrate. It took me 4 years to go from 5 minutes mouth to brain that lasted a day to kidney that formerly not retain mg of MeCbl for up to 18 hours and then letting it out slowly after slowly building the receptors.

 

[Hip]

If you have any idea how I can make the most of each vial and prevent the degradation, I would be immensely grateful.

Have you looked into Dr Greg Russell-Jones's B12 oils as an alternative to B12 injections?

Firstly the B12 oils provide a larger systemic dose of B12 than most injections (around 2000 mcg of methylcobalamin plus adenosylcobalamin gets into the bloodstream once the oils are applied to the skin).

Secondly, the oils are gradually absorbed over a period of a few hours, so rather than a sharp spike in B12 levels from an injection, according to Dr Greg you get a more even flood of B12 into the body. So possibly this slow release might prevent your neurological symptoms reappearing so quickly.

The oils are in a light proof container, which dispenses doses via a pump.


You might also like to look into the important co-factors Greg recommends, especially the vitamin B2, which he says is vital for recycling B12.

 

[Hip]

What I do to minimize light exposure and temperature fluctuations is that when I open a new box, I go into my dark walk-in closet, which is about 95 % light proof (I can’t see anything in there, but there is a minimal speck of light at the bottom of the door); I transfer each vial into a separate, lightproof aluminum box; I put the ten aluminum boxes in a cooling bag with cooling packs; and I put the cooling bag on the coolest shelf in my fridge.

This takes about two minutes, and it’s the method that yields the least degree of B12 degradation. All other handling procedures have been catastrophic in comparison.

Are the aluminum boxes completely light proof? Because when you open the fridge door, light gets in.

Assuming they are, have you tried transferring the B12 vials into these aluminum boxes, but keeping them in a draw at room temp, instead of putting them in the fridge? Maybe the cold is not helping. My understanding is that light causes methylcobalamin to break down, but not temperature.

Oxygen is also a major factor in the degradation of methylcobalamin. What material are the vials made from, and is their any chance oxygen might be permeating into the vials?

More info in this post.

 

[nilsoskaraxel]

Hip,

• the aluminum boxes are light proof (screw lid)

• storing the B12 in the fridge is required to optimize shelf life, according to manufacturer. I’ve left vials in room temperature by mistake and they degraded very quickly.

• the vials are made of hard plastic or glass, completely airtight—you break open the top to open them

 

[nilsoskaraxel]

BTW, I’ve tried Greg’s fine oils. They were good, but didn’t beat a fresh injection. I get better symptom relief from shots when they work. Also, they stained my clothes quite badly which was a downer. I do take all the co factors and have dabbled a lot with B2. And even if I missed some other nutrient, the cofactor theory still wouldn’t explain why I feel great every time I open a new box of B12 and then worse as I reach the end of the box.

 

[Hip]

the vials are made of hard plastic or glass, completely airtight—you break open the top to open them

Just Googled this, and apparently gases can diffuse through plastics, so if the vial is a plastic material, maybe some oxygen is getting in. It's a long shot, I know. However, hard to think of any other possible explanation.

How are the vials protected in the unopened box? Are they hermetically sealed in some way, by a wrapper?

storing the B12 in the fridge is required to optimize shelf life, according to manufacturer. I’ve left vials in room temperature by mistake and they degraded very quickly.

Are these vials posted to you? If so, how long does it take to arrive? Because at least in the summer, they will be exposed to room temperature during shipping. So if room temperatures degrade methylcobalamin, then you would expect you B12 to be degraded just by shipping.

Searching online I read that some methylcobalamin manufacturers state they should be stored at room temp, but other manufacturers say store in the fridge.



The only other thing I thought of was that the oscillating magnetic field emanating from the fridge electric induction motor might be affecting the B12. The aluminum boxes will not block a magnetic field. I don't know if it is possible for oscillating magnetic fields to degrade B12 though.

So you could try placing the B12 vials as far away as possible from the fridge motor. Magnetic fields fall off very rapidly with distance. Though again, a long shot.



Have you or your doctor investigated why you need so much B12, by the way? Freddd for example has SCD (subacute combined degeneration), which requires lots of B12.

Which specific neurological symptoms does B12 resolve?

 

[nilsoskaraxel]

Just Googled this, and apparently gases can diffuse through plastics, so if the vial is a plastic material, maybe some oxygen is getting in. It's a long shot, I know. However, hard to think of any other possible explanation.

How are the vials protected in the unopened box? Are they hermetically sealed in some way, by a wrapper?

Then it must be glass, because the box is made of carton and cannot possible be hermetically sealed, except from light.




Are these vials posted to you? If so, how long does it take to arrive? Because at least in the summer, they will be exposed to room temperature during shipping. So if room temperatures degrade methylcobalamin, then you would expect you B12 to be degraded just by shipping.

No, I pick them up locally and transport them in a cooling bag. Again, the first few vials in each box are always flawless. It’s after I open a box that something happens.


The only other thing I thought of was that the oscillating magnetic field emanating from the fridge electric induction motor might be affecting the B12. The aluminum boxes will not block a magnetic field. I don't know if it is possible for oscillating magnetic fields to degrade B12 though.

Then they would be ruined when stored in the pharmacy’s fridge as well.


So you could try placing the B12 vials as far away as possible from the fridge motor. Magnetic fields fall off very rapidly with distance. Though again, a long shot.

I will try that, though! Thanks.



Have you or your doctor investigated why you need so much B12, by the way? Freddd for example has SCD (subacute combined degeneration), which requires lots of B12.

Yes, but with no satisfactory outcome. I know for sure that I have a heavy mercury load which is known to impair B12 metabolism. Working on that separately.


Which specific neurological symptoms does B12 resolve?

Depression, withdrawal, blurred vision, tingling, sleep quality, confusion, even delusions at times. All of this goes away within MINUTES after a fresh shot.