dealing with low stomach acid.

Lolinda

weird OI: standing up stops my digestion
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@Lolinda High fat diet ... slows gastric motilility.
Indeed, high fat slows gastric emptying. While I did not feel a difference (had slow gastric emptying already before), it is possible that measurements would show something that I do not notice. If so, that is a price I have to pay for a diet that saved my life. Paid gladly :) :) :)
But do you see any connection from motility to stomach acid?
(As an aside: in my experience, the bigger issue with high fat low carb is that they need tons of knowledge to get them right: avoid deficiencies, etc. And btw my leptin values are normal)
Measuring DAO in blood is not of much benefit as there are wild swings in levels throughout the course of a day depending on what and when your food intake is
Do you have research on this? I am curious, did you get tested yourself?

My measurements were always under the same conditions: fasting, in the morning. Are there any publshed concerns against this? I wonder about your conclusion that "DAO tests are of not much benefit". All the metabolic tests (triglycerides, ....) have to be done fasting, because they fluctuate depending on food intake, just as DAO does. So where is the issue? I guess you had some additional reasons to make your conclusion...?
 
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kangaSue

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But do you see any connection from motility to stomach acid?
I don't know of any connection between high fat diet and stomach acid. I have some anecdotal evidence that more acid can improve motility though. When I had to stop taking a PPI for a hydrogen breath test a couple of years back, my motility felt so much better that I stayed off the PPI until a month later when I discovered that it was also a helpful anti-inflammatory agent for me but with going back on the PPI, my system felt more sluggish. Could be placebo but I have seen a number of people making the same comment in other GI dysfunction forums.
Do you have research on this? I am curious, did you get tested yourself?
I didn't research it in depth or keep a note of references at the time but recall that what I read agreed with what a GI doctor said to me in that they test your histamine levels rather than DAO because of the fluctuating levels of DAO in blood and there's no scientifically validated confirmation that a reduced amount of DAO found in a serum sample has any bearing on what is actually required in the digestive tract for effective histamine degradation.
 

heyitisjustin

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Citric acid or ACV to acidify the stomach? I've read that citric and acetic acid can slow the gastric emptying rate. Not sure about ascorbic acid, but it seems to suit me; I take 2 grams with meals.

Mineral supplements in the citrate form seem to exacerbate this symptom for me, but I haven't tried other forms yet.

Some digestive bitters increase gastric secretions. I don't think gentian was traditionally recommended for long term use, and supposedly dandelion can be hard on the liver. Artichoke tincture is one I'm considering. I think I saw some trial of a product containing artichoke leaf extract and ginger that was supposed to aid digestion.
I take Gentian daily and it seems to help. I like bitters as I'd think they let the body regulate the HCL somewhat.
I haven't read anything regarding Gentian safety long term and would appreciate a reference if you can find one.
If you do take Gentian (or other bitters) let it sit on your tongue for a while as the bitter taste will kick start digestion.
 

heyitisjustin

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In the transverse colon? I have it there but not so bad that a doctor could do anything, before.

My intestine motility and functionality have never been great, partly due do permanent Fight or Flight status (aka high excitatory neurotransmitters) thanks to faulty MAO A enzym and being a hyper-alert person in general.
This means my small intestines only go to work once I lie down and go to sleep.
4,5 hours later they've done their job and moved everything on to the next part: the colon. (this is my assumption, that it takes about 4,5 hours to travel food through the small intestines. I've read it somewhere but can't re-find it)

In the colon things get stuck. Somehow stuff doesn't get past the Hepatic Flexure. Things pile up in the Rising colon. It stretches and initiates a stress reaction that wakes me up. Then MAO A keeps me awake with high dopamine and high cortisol for way too long. I'm very alert though and can read scientific journals or write compelling speeches. (characteristics of the various catecholaminergic neurotransmitters can be found online)
Have you learned anything else about your flexure/MAOA combination? I have a similar problem. Do you have pain in your flexure? Mine gets a bit better with castor oil packs and marshmallow root (demulcent). I also can sleep fine if I sedate enough (phenibut). My guess is that healing/not aggravating the gut and increasing calming neurotransmitter are the way forward for us.
 

heyitisjustin

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16oz of celery juice on an empty stomach in the a.m.every morning is the best way to raise your HCL. The mineral salts in celery juice are amazing. HCL tabs never worked for me. I had to start out with 4 oz of the juice and work up.
Why not do this 30 minutes before each meal (time/juicer permitting)?
 

heyitisjustin

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heyitisjustin

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@heyitisjustin
Nettle tea may help. While it actually increases histamine (or believed to do so... − I dont have a scientific reference on this), it trains the body to cope with this, assuming that you drink it daily. Then histamine issues resolve. I tried this on a friend with success: better sleep.
Nettle has histamine, but it also boots acetylcholine. I will probably not resort to nettles right away (I will start with Bacopa and Para Stym). I used to drink nettles and that is probably why I used to sleep fine. I will try it again if the other approaches don't work (I don't like the idea of added histamine, why not just ACh?).
 

heyitisjustin

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It was suggested to drink it "fresh" and right away for the most ideal benefit. Thank you for the suggestion though.:)
Quickly freezing is usually a pretty close second from what I heard. It might be worth a trial to see if it helps your other meals. Frozen celery juice isn't likely to be worse than no celery juice.
 

ebethc

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@WoolPippi

What is the link between cortisol and stomach acid? You mentioned it earlier in the thread, but I have never heard that... interesting because I have always had problems w high cortisol, then low cortisol, then a hypothyroid problem

I've been taking betaine w hcl; also, I'm mao a ++
 

Lolinda

weird OI: standing up stops my digestion
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WoolPippi

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@WoolPippi

What is the link between cortisol and stomach acid? You mentioned it earlier in the thread, but I have never heard that... interesting because I have always had problems w high cortisol, then low cortisol, then a hypothyroid problem

I've been taking betaine w hcl; also, I'm mao a ++
cortisol stimulates gastric-acid secretion. I got it from Wikipedia and from dr. Selye who observed low acidity problems in rats under duress (producing high cortisol).

Dr. Selye = "dr Stress", he coined the term and researched the physical parts of the bodily stress system.
Also how bodies collapse after chronic stress. He showed the proces of erratic high and low cortisol peaks before total collapse (of the adrenals).

I know of no connection between MAO A and stomach acid apart from: low MAO A giving you high dopamine when you are triggered, keeping you in Fight or Flight and not in Rest & Digest therefor using your cortisol for anti-stress and not for stomach acid.

Sorry it took so long to answer.

I take HCL daily. I also rest daily and daily try to develop the new habit of being relaxed. It invokes the Relaxation Response and doesn't require MAO A to work hard.
I'm MAO A ++ too and MAO B ++ too. I get very much a head ache from cheese or ripe pine apple (foods high in tyramine). Stay away from foods high in tyramine (all ripened and matured and fermented foods).
I have a tresh hold. I can have a handful of nuts or a piece of young cheese a day. But not both.
 

WoolPippi

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Have you learned anything else about your flexure/MAOA combination? I have a similar problem. Do you have pain in your flexure? Mine gets a bit better with castor oil packs and marshmallow root (demulcent). I also can sleep fine if I sedate enough (phenibut). My guess is that healing/not aggravating the gut and increasing calming neurotransmitter are the way forward for us.
I have learned new things! TL;DR at the bottom
I had an x-ray CT of the colon done, a virtual colonoscopy. On it a flexure is visible but it is too small for the doctor to be alarmed. It does explain the "bulge" I often feel on the right lower side of my stomach. Also many twists and bends at the start of the colon. This is where bacteria live and produce gas. Any gas or fibre that gets stuck there causes a stress reaction in the night.

This stress reaction is prolonged because of the MAO A and MAO B deficiency. I lie wide awake for 1,5 hours. Which is the time between the large bowel movements (BMM), the sweeping motility that runs the whole colon to try and empty it. After 3 fruitless tries (=4,5 hours) the system bucks and wakes me up. With a hard and painful belly (right side).

Here is a link to the CT pictures of the abdomen: https://www.flickr.com/photos/snorrepot/34474316004/in/photolist-UwnT5G
It looks normal until you try and follow the twists from the exit of the small intestines all the way up to the splenic flexure. Especially on the small picture, which is a side view, you see how the twists are stacked, often bending back on itself. Nothing can pass when this person is lying down.

The colon expert in the hospital said the twists and bends are not uncommon at all. That's why he couldn't phantom how they cause my insomnia. But then he knows nothing of MAO A.

He did say that humans only eat fibre for colonic function. You do not need it for health or vitamins or shaving down the villi in the small intestine. If you poop regularly you do not need fibre. Is what he said.

Since this consult I have experimented with trying to prevent the build up of bulk and gas in the start of the colon. I do this by diet and by lying down and pressing the gas along my colon with my hands. This has done wonders. I am no longer bloated (posture has improved beyond belief!). I am way less tired! And I now sleep through the night. No stress reaction, no surge of excitatory neurotransmitters.

As a result of sleeping through the night I can lower my hydrocortisone supplements during the day. My bodily stress levels are way lower.

little tangent about pressure points: the colon has pressure points on the inside and at the ascending colon it's the breathing organs. When air or food is trapped there and expands the colon these pressure points are activated. This may explain why I am troubled by dust allergies at night on nights that my colon is bloated. I have no trouble at nights that it is lean.

Allergies invoke a stress reaction too (hello MAO A and B). But they also have to do with histamines. Salt is a powerful anti-histamine. I take lots of salt to aid my adrenals and boost my low blood pressure. I have found that salt also helps when I am sniffling or have head aches from bodily stress reactions such as allergies or "cheese head ache" (when you have eaten too much tyramine and your MAO A is already busy dealing with other neuro transmitters).

Besides no bulk and no gas my diet also has to be low tyramine and no sulphur rich foods. I mainly eat chicken stock, chocolate and cream and I eat this before noon. Stop eating at 2 o 'clock in the day. Have a little snack at 4. No more drinking after 6 o 'clock in the evening. Keep everything small in size, both the eating and the drinking. This routine sucks a bit yes. But I feel great, much energy and sleep through the night.
I also twist and turn on the bed to coax gas along. Gas rises to the top, I figure, so I try to follow the way the tubes bend to get it to the exit. This prevents hepatic flexure. Repeatedly.

I poop regularly but stools are a bit sticky now. For colonic function it is important that I am upright during parts the day. A little stroll in the evening works wonders. I've also started to do sit ups before sleep (start with 1. It took me weeks to get to 2.) And I need to be in bed 20 minutes before sleep, just to massage my belly. Passing gas (and also burping!) is now a sign of victory.

TL;DR various triggers hinder my MAO A and MAO B shortage. The biggest is colonic expansion because I have many twists in the tubes. See this picture. I prevent expansion by not eating bulk (= no fiber and all meals the size of a hamster) and not eating gas producing things (= FODMAP). No more stress, I am in better health.
 

Lolinda

weird OI: standing up stops my digestion
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great post, @WoolPippi !! I like such long detailed posts. It really makes me learn how things work for you. I have little to add, one thing:
I also twist and turn on the bed to coax gas along.
For anyone having motility issues with the stomach or the small intestine, here a manual trick for these: this instructional video is for massaging the two sphincters, the pyloric and the ileocaecal valve.
http://allergiesandyourgut.com/2015...pyloric-ileocecal-valves-and-how-to-fix-them/
The video is at the very end of the page.
In essence:
  • if the stomach does not empty, massaging the outlet sphincter (=the pyloric valve) will open it and make the stomach empty itself.
  • if things collect / feel inflamed in the belly it could be the small intestine not emptying into the big one. here massaging the ileocaecal valve helps.
I profitted from both. After doing it manually for a while, I slowly figured out how to set things in motion by willpower/meditation ( ....my most challenging yoga feat ever... took months...)
 

sb4

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I profitted from both. After doing it manually for a while, I slowly figured out how to set things in motion by willpower/meditation ( ....my most challenging yoga feat ever... took months...)
How would you begin to do this. I have never done yoga and am bad at meditating but try often.
 
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Howdy all, this has been very illuminating and perhaps is finally pointing in the right direction. I've had this mystery condition with insomnia for years now. It kind of started when I still lived in CA, USA but worsened when I moved to colder European climate. To make a few pages fit into a paragraph I am guessing this all started with what they refer to as 'adrenal fatigue" and spiraled into layers and layers of other issues involving my gut, liver, food sensitivities and so on. One of the biggest mysteries remains this heat in the abdomen that I feel after meals. About 30-45 minutes later I just start feeling heat (not burning or acid) in my upper abdomen below rib cage. If I eat harder to digest foods like starchy stuff (potatoe pancakes) I feel these pulsating sensations from my belly shoot down my legs, very nasty feeling. I visited gastro docs but they weren't helpful. One telling symptom is that it all started in the gut for me. First the H Pylori infection, then a year later appendix inflammation (had to be removed). When I had H Pylori I was also treated for gastritis but it wasn't gastritis, docs later told me that it was bile back-flow irritating the stomach. Now, thanks to some of you here, I'm discovering the pyloric valve and low stomach acid relationship. When I get a cold/virus/fever I feel a lot of heat in my pyloric valve section and my appetite virtually disappears; insomnia gets much worse and fatigue can last for weeks. Anyways, I always thought it was congested liver but I could be wrong. Anyways, back to the main issue: heat in stomach following meals. Do you think this could be actually from food being too alkaline (not enough stomach acid due to adrenal fatigue and cortisol issues)? Have any of you deal with these kind of symptoms before?
 

Eastman

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@InsomniacNextDoor

My mother sometimes complain of pain at the intersection of the abdomen and chest, and sometimes under the rib cage. She does not describe it as heat though.

She has been taking betaine HCL recently and doesn't complain so much of abdominal and chest pain. Her chronic cough also seems to be much improved.

An earlier trial of bile acids was not so successful and may even have made things worse.