Dang those Vitamin D3 levels

[LINE]

One has to have the precursors in the body in order for UVB to make D3 in the skin. When my doctor took me off testosterone, when I reached 0.0x ng/ml or whatever, essentially none, I could not make any D with a UVB light.

Am I understanding that testosterone negatively affects Vit D?

 

[Bluebluesky]

BetterMe oral spray 3000, 1 or 2 sprays a day solved this for me and I have heard this from several others too.

My crazy need for vitamin D went normal in a period where I was starting up slowly with vitamin b3. I'm not entirely sure that that was the reason, but it is my best bet. After this I only need the normal 5-10 mg a day and I will get unwell vith nausea and headache from the large doses that I took earlier.

This kind of low vitamin D is very common with b12 deficiency. (You might know that already.)

 

[datadragon]

I had mostly been looking at how Vitamin D and A levels were related to increasing zinc, however some research studies showed also that it works both ways as zinc is involved with both Vitamin D and Vitamin A metabolism and function. So that is very important as under inflammation/infection zinc availability and uptake is lowered. A lot makes more sense when you realize the body is switching to an inflammatory state like a see-saw. Here is some more of the Vitamin D relationships.

A sustained raise in plasma zinc concentration (and therefore its potential bioavailability) was obtained only when the zinc was augmented with both vitamins A and D. Seven groups of 10 healthy subjects received various combinations of zinc and the two vitamins A and D, namely: zinc, vitamin A, vitamin D, zinc plus vitamin A, zinc plus vitamin D, vitamins A and D, and zinc plus vitamins A and D. Plasma zinc levels were determined at baseline, 3 weeks and 6 weeks. Plasma zinc levels increased significantly only in the group receiving the combination of zinc and vitamins A and D. Link The mean Zinc level was significantly lower in the hypovitaminosis D group than in controls. The Pearson's analysis showed a positive and significant correlation between Zinc and 25(OH) D serum levels. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5307609/

Studies have found that reduced blood zinc levels could predict vitamin D deficiency in adolescent girls, while zinc supplementation increased vitamin D levels in postmenopausal women. In vitro studies using human peritoneal macrophages have found that zinc induced the release of calcitriol (1,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol). Zinc also acts as a cofactor for vitamin D functions, as the transcriptional activity of vitamin D-dependent genes relies on zinc to exert pleiotropic functions, including mineral ion regulation. Vitamin D could also induce zinc transporters to regulate zinc homeostasis. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2665944122000190

The vitamin D receptor (VDR) binds zinc, and the activity of vitamin D dependent genes in cells is influenced by intracellular zinc concentrations. With increasing amounts of Zn(2+), additional Zn(2+) ions were detected bound to VDR and RXR alpha https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11400211/

The glucocorticoid and estrogen receptors are examples of zinc hormonal receptor proteins. They are members of a multigene family that includes receptors for thyroid hormone, retinoic acid, and vitamin D https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.3283939 The DNA binding domain of these proteins contains zinc. Removal of this element yields hormonal receptors that do not bind DNA when activated by glucocorticoids or estrogens https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/7/12/5542/htm Zinc is required for the DNA binding proteins involved in the regulation of gene expression https://www.jbc.org/article/S0021-9258(17)43831-2/fulltext https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4040853/

 

[Freddd]

Am I understanding that testosterone negatively affects Vit D?

No, the hormone goes like this- low density cholesterol> pregnenolone > DHEA> Testosterone > ,estrogen>.more hormones> Antidiuretic hormone> more hormones > Vitamin D precursors for making vit D with UVB.

 

[Alvin2]

One has to have the precursors in the body in order for UVB to make D3 in the skin. When my doctor took me off testosterone, when I reached 0.0x ng/ml or whatever, essentially none, I could not make any D with a UVB light.

How interesting, are you saying low testosterone prevents the body from making vitamin D?

 

[datadragon]

How interesting, are you saying low testosterone prevents the body from making vitamin D?

Estrogen is converted from Testosterone. The vitamin D binding protein (DBP) increased significantly after estrogen and there was a significant positive correlation between the plasma concentration of 1,25-(OH)2D (active Vitamin D) and DBP.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...strogen_on_Vitamin_D_Metabolism_in_Tall_Girls Unlike vitamin A, which facilitates the hepatic secretion of the retinol-binding protein, vitamin D sterols or other calciotropic hormones do not regulate the plasma Vitamin D binding protein (DBP) concentration. Its hepatic synthesis is estrogen dependent and is significantly increased during pregnancy and estrogen therapy. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128000946000017 Estrogen conversion from testosterone is linked to cytochrome p450 enzymes requiring magnesium as a cofactor and can be lowered during inflammation states. Vitamin A is also needed which further needs zinc for its metabolism. So again can point to inflammation, zinc, vitamin A, or mag as other potential culprits rather than Vitamin D. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...eficiency-in-the-raw-datas.91176/post-2448637

From my post here https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/dang-those-vitamin-d3-levels.91152/post-2449906

 

[Freddd]

How interesting, are you saying low testosterone prevents the body from making vitamin D?

A while after T=0 my skin cell making was failing and the differences were visible started days after that. My body doesn't make enough hormones to keep me alive. I have to take testosterone or estrogen or maybe DHEA or pregnenolone in suitable amount. That supplies all the downstream hormones too. I was not able to make the secondary sources of testosterone either, that most people have.

 

[linusbert]

thats very interesting, that could fit into the post orgasmic crash for some guys like me. a shift and decrease from testosterone to prolactin and others could explain that.

 

[datadragon]

My body doesn't make enough hormones to keep me alive. I have to take testosterone or estrogen or maybe DHEA or pregnenolone in suitable amount.

The human cytochrome P450 (CYP) superfamily comprises 57 genes. These genes code for enzymes present in most tissues of the body that can have a role in: cholesterol metabolism and bile-acid biosynthesis; hormone synthesis and breakdown including estrogen and testosterone synthesis and metabolism (To effectively convert cholesterol into pregnenolone which then gets converted into other hormones like estrogen, testosterone, cortisol and DHEA) ; vitamin D(3) synthesis and metabolism; retinoic acid hydroxylation (Vitamin A); arachidonic acid, and eicosanoids; metabolism of drugs, foreign chemicals, and those of still unknown function https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12387968/

over 600 enzyme systems require Magnesium as a cofactor to function optimally, including the cytochrome P450 enzymes, and magnesium deficiency is widespread. https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/pai.1994.8.7

Copper is an essential cofactor for many enzymes, including cytochromes but it is toxic in its unbound form. https://academic.oup.com/clinchem/article/51/8/1558/5629883 Ceruloplasmin requires zinc, magnesium and Vitamin A to make our copper and iron bioavailable (usable) and prevent unbound copper. Mammalian cells require copper ions as a cofactor for a number of enzymes including cytochrome c oxidase, superoxide dismutase (SOD), lysyl oxidase, and the enzymes necessary for neurotransmitter and neuropeptide synthesis. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17876515/ On a side note, Cytochrome c oxidase, the terminal oxidase in the electron transport chain, is copper dependent. Bioavailable copper (attached to ceruloplasmin) is necessary for the electron transport chain to operate and so when bioavailable copper is low mitochondrial dysfunction also results.

The innate immune response releasing pro inflammatory cytokines, such as IL-6, may also have the ability to suppress xenobiotic-metabolizing CYP450 enzymes as well. So those under existing inflammatory states may have problems as well. https://www.xenotech.com/access-adm...-toll-like-receptor-9-agonist-in-hepatocytes/

Expression of CYP450 enzymes is downregulated in the hepatic tissue during the host response to inflammation or infection https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1038/clpt.2008.302

Liver disease as well https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1016/j.clpt.2006.05.006

On top of that on a side note, Aluminum, Mercury, Copper, Polysorbate 80, Glyphosate and others all further may possibly be able to impact the enzymes as well based on the published research but would clearly benefit from more study.

Genetics may play a big part of specific cyp enzymes. I was mentioning how The CYP2D6 enzyme activity for example ranges considerably within a population and includes ultrarapid metabolizers (UMs), extensive metabolizers (EMs), intermediate metabolizers (IMs) as it relates to SSRI metabolism and how SSRI-induced akathisia, suicide and homicide cases were related to cytochrome P450 metabolizer status. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...mage-from-some-medications.91177/post-2448621

 

[Freddd]

In the year since I started the UVB light and the 7 years of use lithium orotate my body has become much more "normal". With the TCR-Li being grown for 7 years my body is stable and my need for B12 and methylfolate has become stable and with the lithium for the TCR-Li I have a stable working B12 system. I haven't had to change methylfolate for 2 years now, I have ample B12 in the TCR-Li and don't need large daily doses of B12.

 

[Alvin2]

Estrogen is converted from Testosterone. The vitamin D binding protein (DBP) increased significantly after estrogen and there was a significant positive correlation between the plasma concentration of 1,25-(OH)2D (active Vitamin D) and DBP.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...strogen_on_Vitamin_D_Metabolism_in_Tall_Girls Unlike vitamin A, which facilitates the hepatic secretion of the retinol-binding protein, vitamin D sterols or other calciotropic hormones do not regulate the plasma Vitamin D binding protein (DBP) concentration. Its hepatic synthesis is estrogen dependent and is significantly increased during pregnancy and estrogen therapy. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128000946000017 Estrogen conversion from testosterone is linked to cytochrome p450 enzymes requiring magnesium as a cofactor and can be lowered during inflammation states. Vitamin A is also needed which further needs zinc for its metabolism. So again can point to inflammation, zinc, vitamin A, or mag as other potential culprits rather than Vitamin D. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...eficiency-in-the-raw-datas.91176/post-2448637

From my post here https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/dang-those-vitamin-d3-levels.91152/post-2449906

In English, does low testosterone prevent the body from creating vitamin D?

 

[datadragon]

In English, does low testosterone prevent the body from creating vitamin D?

Yes by lowering the ability to make estrogen. The vitamin D binding protein (DBP) increased significantly after estrogen.

The Vitamin D binding protein is able to bind the various forms of vitamin D including ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) and cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), the 25-hydroxylated forms (calcifediol), and the active hormonal product, 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D (calcitriol). The major proportion of vitamin D in blood is bound to this protein. It transports vitamin D metabolites between skin, liver and kidney, and then on to the various target tissues

 

[Alvin2]

Yes by lowering the ability to make estrogen. The vitamin D binding protein (DBP) increased significantly after estrogen.

The Vitamin D binding protein is able to bind the various forms of vitamin D including ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) and cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), the 25-hydroxylated forms (calcifediol), and the active hormonal product, 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D (calcitriol). The major proportion of vitamin D in blood is bound to this protein. It transports vitamin D metabolites between skin, liver and kidney, and then on to the various target tissues

I wonder if this is why my body cannot create vitamin D. I have to take 5000IU/day for life.

 

[Freddd]

I wonder if this is why my body cannot create vitamin D. I have to take 5000IU/day for life.

I needed to buy a UVB lamp for making D in my skin. It works very well for me. However, when they took me off testosterone, I stopped making vitamin D. So I have a testosterone prescription. I can't absorb any vitamin D orally because of genetic problems with the receptors.

 

[datadragon]

I wonder if this is why my body cannot create vitamin D. I have to take 5000IU/day for life.

The "over the counter" form of Vitamin D (cholecalciferol) needs to be converted to calcifediol (25OHD3) which is the form doctors normally measure, and then converted to the active form calcitriol (1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3) that uses the VDR for some of Vitamin Ds functions (but not all). Your doctor is able to test the active calcitriol 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 (the active form) at the exact same time that they test calcifediol (25OHD3) as usual by the way to see any issues in conversion at the time of the test. https://www.labcorp.com/tests/081091/calcitriol-1-25-di-oh-vitamin-d and https://www.labcorp.com/tests/081950/vitamin-d-25-hydroxy

Your doctor can also prescribe calcitriol 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 the active form, or the calcifediol form which may work better until the conversion issues are resolved or under certain conditions like infection/inflammation/shingles etc.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29713796/ Magnesium was one part of that, inflammation can lower cytochrome p450 enzymes needed for conversions etc.

I can't absorb any vitamin D orally because of genetic problems with the receptors.

Genetics can also be at play yes. Possibly all blood type As, may have such mutations in zinc, vitamin D, and mthfr for example among others in their inflammation pathways. They exist due to that balancing of inflammation levels where certain groups among the population such as potentially others who are also blood type As are looking to be normal to have these mutations due to how they balance inflammation differently and should not by itself assume its bad and to fix it just for that reason. You can have a situation in those groups only where bypassing the mutations such as mthfr with active forms and lowering inflammation/homocysteine too much can increase blood pressure and weight among many other problems.

 

[Alvin2]

The "over the counter" form of Vitamin D (cholecalciferol) needs to be converted to calcifediol (25OHD3) which is the form doctors normally measure, and then converted to the active form calcitriol (1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3) that uses the VDR for some of Vitamin Ds functions (but not all). Your doctor is able to test the active calcitriol 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 (the active form) at the exact same time that they test calcifediol (25OHD3) as usual by the way to see any issues in conversion at the time of the test. https://www.labcorp.com/tests/081091/calcitriol-1-25-di-oh-vitamin-d and https://www.labcorp.com/tests/081950/vitamin-d-25-hydroxy

Your doctor can also prescribe calcitriol 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 the active form, or the calcifediol form which may work better until the conversion issues are resolved or under certain conditions like infection/inflammation/shingles etc.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29713796/ Magnesium was one part of that, inflammation can lower cytochrome p450 enzymes needed for conversions etc.

Brain is overloaded, i take 5000IU of D3, is that form good?

Genetics can also be at play yes. Possibly all blood type As, may have such mutations in zinc, vitamin D, and mthfr for example among others in their inflammation pathways. They exist due to that balancing of inflammation levels where certain groups among the population such as potentially others who are also blood type As are looking to be normal to have these mutations due to how they balance inflammation differently and should not by itself assume its bad and to fix it just for that reason. You can have a situation in those groups only where bypassing the mutations such as mthfr with active forms and lowering inflammation/homocysteine too much can increase blood pressure and weight among many other problems.

Do not know my blood type nor have had any genetic testing done.

 

[datadragon]

Brain is overloaded, i take 5000IU of D3, is that form good?

Yes, but that gets converted after taking. (cholecalciferol D3 form).
Your doctor can test vitamin D but also can test the active form (calcitriol (1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3) at same time. That can help show if its being converted ok or not. A c-reactive protein test may help see if you are having higher inflammation also. Magnesium such as magnesium glycinate may be helpful if you are under inflammation or showing true deficient vitamin D levels.

 

[Alvin2]

Yes, but that gets converted after taking. (cholecalciferol D3 form).
Your doctor can test vitamin D but also can test the active form (calcitriol (1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3) at same time. That can help show if its being converted ok or not. A c-reactive protein test may help see if you are having higher inflammation also. Magnesium such as magnesium glycinate may be helpful if you are under inflammation or showing true deficient vitamin D levels.

I'm in Canada, and i don't know if the test you speak of is available.
Here is the major blood test chain, are you able to determine if they have it (i'm in Ontario)?
https://tests.lifelabs.com/s/ontario

Some hospitals can do extended panels not available commercially, what is the test called (i can search for it among the institutions i have worked with)?

 

[datadragon]

Some hospitals can do extended panels not available commercially, what is the test called (i can search for it among the institutions i have worked with)?

The top test is the vitamin D test most doctors use. The bottom test can be done at the same time to also test the active form which will give more information on vitamin D and conversion.
https://tests.lifelabs.com/s/article/VITAMIN-D-25-HYDROXY-Ontario
https://tests.lifelabs.com/s/article/1-25-DIHYDROXY-VITAMIN-D-Ontario

This test can tell a bit of information on inflammation
https://tests.lifelabs.com/s/article/C-REACTIVE-PROTEIN-Ontario

 

[Freddd]

I use a UVB lamp. I don't absorb vitamin D orally because of genetic problems with the receptors. UVB works well.