Crashes - what does science tell us for practical use?

sometexan84

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I haven't actually looked at meds like this before. It's just a theory, wanted to offer something new.

I saw the links @Learner1 posted. Maybe something helpful there.

I think it would be cool for someone to try it though. Probably as pem prevention.

Honestly, I want to know about mental exertion. There aren't many studies on metal PEM in CFS. I feel like that would be HUGE piece of the puzzle.

I have always underestimated mental PEM, largely because I don't understand it. But after being hit over and over w/ it recently, from all the question answering and research and crazy multi-tasking for 3 weeks straight, I would love to learn more.

Like, what are the sources of mental energy? What cytokines are involved? How does mental energy usage correspond to physical reactions in the body? Are there any ME/CFS studies that found something meaningful on mental exertion compared to controls?
 
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How does mental energy usage correspond to physical reactions in the body? A

I'm PEM crashing today, from mental exertion. Read some beefier articles, lying down. reading and pondering, no talking.

My colon digestion has been affected. My IBS seemed almost gone. Today not happy, and its not the food (ate the same food).

Eyes glued shut around 3 am on (neuro inflammatory immune)

headache and I don't often get those

hurting/flu like

sore throat bad
 

sometexan84

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I'm PEM crashing today, from mental exertion. Read some beefier articles, lying down. reading and pondering, no talking.

My colon digestion has been affected. My IBS seemed almost gone. Today not happy, and its not the food (ate the same food).

Eyes glued shut around 3 am on (neuro inflammatory immune)

headache and I don't often get those

hurting/flu like

sore throat bad
Colon digestion affected?

And no IBS though?
 

sometexan84

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yes, cramping, bloat, throb, disorganized colon output

The colon lost energy, is my theory. From the thinking. Too much.

Now its the list of PEM symptoms that I think ARE initiated by running out of ATP in the brain.
I'm curious because I was wanting to know if there was a gut connection, to mental PEM.

Mental PEM is one thing I can't connect to the gut. But you are convinced that mental PEM for you had a noticeable effect on your colon issues?
 
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But you are convinced that mental PEM for you had a noticeable effect on your colon issues?
Yes....I see a connection of mental PEM starting up and the gut which had been calm seemingly changing back swiftly.

I'm convinced it something energy related, that does some defending of the gut wall, or affects permeabililty.

Sometimes gut troubles generate the subsequent pem, and other times I feel like the opposite happens.
 

hapl808

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For me there is a connection to the gut for mental PEM. Any mental exertion or concentration will lead to very bad acid reflux - that's the most noticeable symptom. Otherwise I don't get reflux, so it seems clearly related to PEM although I'm not sure why. I'm trying all the usual strategies on reflux / SIBO / etc to see if that will improve my general CFS symptoms.
 

sometexan84

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For me there is a connection to the gut for mental PEM. Any mental exertion or concentration will lead to very bad acid reflux - that's the most noticeable symptom. Otherwise I don't get reflux, so it seems clearly related to PEM although I'm not sure why. I'm trying all the usual strategies on reflux / SIBO / etc to see if that will improve my general CFS symptoms.
Same here, with the acid reflux
 

hapl808

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Because the lower Esophageal sphincter cant close due to Lack of Energy from PEM?!
Possible - some kind of LES dysfunction seems a likely mechanism. The bigger question to me is if so, then what is causing that 'lack of energy' from just mental concentration or activity? Physical activity straining muscles makes sense, but mental activity seems like it's more likely to be neurotransmitter related, although I suppose anything is possible. I've found that even something pleasurable like a long relaxed phone conversation will lead to terrible acid reflux over the next couple days.
 
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I think what we should keep in mind is that most so-called mental activities like watching tv are technically physical activities.
If we think of tissue hypoxia leading to decreased metabolic output of the involved mitochondria then why should it be different with the organ that needs around 20% of all our energy?
Mental crashes would be such just from thinking.
 

sometexan84

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Possible - some kind of LES dysfunction seems a likely mechanism. The bigger question to me is if so, then what is causing that 'lack of energy' from just mental concentration or activity? Physical activity straining muscles makes sense, but mental activity seems like it's more likely to be neurotransmitter related, although I suppose anything is possible. I've found that even something pleasurable like a long relaxed phone conversation will lead to terrible acid reflux over the next couple days.
Gut-Brain axis. Or even Microbiome-Gut-Brain axis.

I've always followed the documentation on how the gut stuff affects the brain stuff... but I haven't looked a ton at the reverse.

Like I know how the gut infection and dysbiosis results in brain inflammation and cognitive issues. But if the science exists on how brain activity influences the gut, I have yet to find it.
 

sometexan84

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I think what we should keep in mind is that most so-called mental activities like watching tv are technically physical activities.
If we think of tissue hypoxia leading to decreased metabolic output of the involved mitochondria then why should it be different with the organ that needs around 20% of all our energy?
Mental crashes would be such just from thinking.
You mean like, why should the energy directed to the brain be different from the energy directed towards muscle tissue?

I wasn't aware the same processes were occurring to be honest.
 

sometexan84

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TO ALL:

If there is a study on mental PEM in ME/CFS, can someone please share it with me? Or here!

If I can connect the gut w/ mental PEM, then everything I've researched in ME/CFS will finally come together. This is the one big thing that never made sense to me... and I've been avoiding it, because I was scared this is what would break my theory. But now it sounds like it belongs, like it actually DOES fit.. I just need to know exactly how.
 
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hapl808

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Yes I don't see any reason why it should be different.
Yes, this does make sense to me and I've considered it, but I don't really understand the exact pathways and processes by which the brain burns energy. It also resonates with my experience with CFS through mild and moderate - the 'lactic acid buildup in muscles' never made as much sense to me because going to the gym might not crash me, but a long day of running errands might do so.