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Could this be IT ? - brain inflammation

JES

Senior Member
Messages
1,322
There's lots of research how 3 months of riboflavin can halt certain symptoms of migraines and/or how a ketogenic diet for 6 months can too. Many brain researchers understand migraines to be categorized as micro seizures and they can be classified as inflammation bursts. The brain needs a great deal of steady and surplus nutrients to heal and hopefully over time will mean less or "manageable" inflammation (thank goodness for sleep and the glymphatic system).

It doesn't, necessarily, take three months or lots of nutrients. Our bodies (including brains) are very adaptible things. I temporarily recovered from 90% of my ME/CFS symptoms 24-48 hours after catching an acute cold, which is pretty incredible. If brain training would help, it should IMO provide effects much quicker than three months, otherwise I suspect there is at least some degree of placebo involved. The problem is, unlike with post-concussion syndrome, there is some sort of "signal" (for the lack of a better word) that is keeping most of us with ME/CFS ill. All the brain training in the world will not necessarily overcome that signal if it comes from somewhere else in the body like the gut, as @andyguitar pointed out.
 

Stretched

Senior Member
Messages
705
Location
U.S. Atlanta
@andyguitar

...It took me months of 1.5-3 hours several times a week hooked up to a neuroplasticity device to have the coincidental benefit of tuning into and then having the brain itself do the work of erasing those constant pain signals.
I was just along for this experience and it happened without my conscious direction. Neuroplasticity will differ in everyone... .
The brain needs a great deal of steady and surplus nutrients to heal and hopefully over time will mean less or "manageable" inflammation (thank goodness for sleep and the glymphatic system).

I, too would like to see more on this topic... . My neurologist (young) did extensive bloodwork for my brain and then referred me to a hematologist for further analysi. The Hemo elimimated a lot of things but confirmed inflammation. I didn’t pursue its location, cause or dynamics at the time, last year. I’m wondering if I should now...? I’ll keep an eye out for a thread if you go that way, or other.
 
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ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
4,705
Location
United States, New Hampshire
But I'm not thinking it could help for brain inflammation which I suspect has it's origin outside of the brain. Put simply the body effecting the brain. But there are cases in which the persons symptoms began with a head injury.

Traumatic brain injury (TBI) and concussion have been shown to cause dysbiosis and leaky gut. Which in turn, can cause ongoing neuroinflammation and continued symptoms. Here is one reference but there are many that show this-

Abstract
Current efficacious treatments for traumatic brain injury (TBI) are lacking. Establishment of a protective gut microbiota population offers a compelling therapeutic avenue, as brain injury induces disruptions in the composition of the gut microbiota, i.e., gut dysbiosis, which has been shown to contribute to TBI-related neuropathology and impaired behavioral outcomes.

The gut microbiome is involved in the modulation of a multitude of cellular and molecular processes fundamental to the progression of TBI-induced pathologies including neuroinflammation, blood brain barrier permeability, immune system response, microglial activation, and mitochondrial dysfunction, as well as intestinal motility and permeability.

Additionally, gut dysbiosis further aggravates behavioral impairments in animal models of TBI and spinal cord injury, as well as negatively affects health outcomes in murine stroke models. Recent studies indicate that microbiota transplants and probiotics ameliorate neuroanatomical damage and functional impairments in animal models of stroke and spinal cord injury.

In addition, probiotics have been shown to reduce the rate of infection and time spent in intensive care of hospitalized patients suffering from brain trauma. Perturbations in the composition of the gut microbiota and its metabolite profile may also serve as potential diagnostic and theragnostic biomarkers for injury severity and progression.

This review aims to address the etiological role of the gut microbiome in the biochemical, neuroanatomical, and behavioral/cognitive consequences of TBI, as well as explore the potential of gut microbiome manipulation in the form of probiotics as an effective therapeutic to ameliorate TBI-induced pathology and symptoms.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6706789/
 

Hopeful2021

Senior Member
Messages
262
It doesn't, necessarily, take three months or lots of nutrients. Our bodies (including brains) are very adaptible things. I temporarily recovered from 90% of my ME/CFS symptoms 24-48 hours after catching an acute cold, which is pretty incredible. If brain training would help, it should IMO provide effects much quicker than three months, otherwise I suspect there is at least some degree of placebo involved. The problem is, unlike with post-concussion syndrome, there is some sort of "signal" (for the lack of a better word) that is keeping most of us with ME/CFS ill. All the brain training in the world will not necessarily overcome that signal if it comes from somewhere else in the body like the gut, as @andyguitar pointed out.
@JES thats so interesting and lots of cheering applause for your 90 percent recovery. What I've learned about covid19 and the cytokine storm has greatly impacted by current additions to my rehab from ME plan.
I can definitely see or intuit that 90 percent could occur. I've also had some pretty incredible experiences, but unfortunately they didn't last to the current second.
I'm definitely open to that kind of quick and long term success. I'm most interested in monoclonal antibodies therapy which like in your case would **kind of** work like the immune system response to a common cold.
by the way, corona viruses cause 25 percent of the common colds.
As for brain signals, well, there's quite a large case history from multi clinics where indeed time and recovery do have a long xy axis curve if working for rehabilitation.
 

Hopeful2021

Senior Member
Messages
262
Traumatic brain injury (TBI) and concussion have been shown to cause dysbiosis and leaky gut. Which in turn, can cause ongoing neuroinflammation and continued symptoms. Here is one reference but there are many that show this-



https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6706789/
@ljimbo423
Yes.... the gut is so interesting.
Do you know also about PaleoMedicina's data about gut permeability? Basically within 2-3 hours of eating soybean oil or canola oil, leaky gut comes back.
I have several friends and have read numerous, probably by now 60-75 stories of individuals' success with healing their gut with carnivore diet. One can often surmise that many would also cycle into ketosis.

Ketones in the gut have a great protective effect too. There was a large hallmark study about a year ago. If I come across it, I will attach. Before I did all my biohacker therapies, I had determined that it was crucial to avoid soybean oil and canola oil. Occasionally I would forget and eat restaurant salad dressing or some sauce and then I'd be in bed for 3 days. Sometimes it would take us 2 days to remember it was some sauce.
As an aside, going Carnivore for me equated by happenstance that I could take being out in the full sun. I didn't realize it for about 3 days. And if I strayed, it would take 6 days of zero carb in order to regain my sun exposure ability.
(This is also a common occurrence in the carnivore community-- for some, they rarely or hardly burn, and for others, it's no need of sunglasses). I used to need 2 pairs of sunglasses and colored contacts to be out in moderate sunlight.
As time went on, I could also stand strong chemical odors; I still avoid them, but now, I don't crash immediately.
The mucous layer is also in the nasal passage... so I suspect it's likely not just the gut microbiome for some of us.
There are plant sterols receptors also in the human gut in order to protect from plant toxins. This is likely on of many many reasons why so many with a true autoimmune disorder or the multitude of gut issues and diseases resolves in about 6 months for the worst case scenarios. For many it's just 3 months.
I'm now a relaxed carnivore and am happy also cycling in and out of ketosis.
 

andyguitar

Moderator
Messages
6,598
Location
South east England
The problem is, unlike with post-concussion syndrome, there is some sort of "signal" (for the lack of a better word) that is keeping most of us with ME/CFS ill. All the brain training in the world will not necessarily overcome that signal if it comes from somewhere else in the body like the gut, as @andyguitar pointed out.
I'm thinking it's a chemical not a signal. Chemical is acting as a block.
 

Hopeful2021

Senior Member
Messages
262
I, too would like to see more on this topic... . My neurologist (young) did extensive bloodwork for my brain and then referred me to a hematologist for further analysi. The Hemo elimimated a lot of things but confirmed inflammation. I didn’t pursue its location, cause or dynamics at the time, last year. I’m wondering if I should now...? I’ll keep an eye out for a thread if you go that way, or other.
@Stretched
I have a few friends who are very strict keto to manage their brains.... either to survive the ravages and progression of glioblastoma cancer, epilepsy or brain trauma. And I know of several people but not personally with Alzheimer's and Parkinson's and MS who also manage with a heavy and strict keto regime.
I got a huge boost from ketone esters which are lab made esters, not an exogenous ketone salt mix drink.
They helped me greatly especially in my severe ME episodes that normally would leave me very out of it and bedridden.... almost no input could be taken, light, sound, touch, you know, severe severe.
But with ester, I could shuffle from room to room a few times a day, sit and stare at the TV for about 10-15 min, and stutter longer and a bit more clearly. Versus attempts to stutter and not make any sense and then cry or crash.
The research on the brain in ketosis is strong.
what were only animal studies are now human studies. The strides in the research is breathtaking. To be witness to the progress astounds me and inspires me and often makes me love science even more.
Were it not for Corona virus, I'm pretty sure another human study for another neurological disease would be underway now. Unfortunately, it will likely be another two years before that ketone ester in those people becomes published.
In my severe crash Dec2019- 6-8 months very severe and one could say 16 months but just less severe for another 14 months... anyway, I was very very thankful for ketone esters as a group.

Hyperbariac Oxygen, four consecutive days, and ketone ester saved me from what might have been my final brain decline. I have shared ketone esters and Hyperbaric Oxygen (again good solid data) a lot in the ME community and have heard ZERO ppl interested in trying it or family members willing to try it for their comatose family members. It's quite sad. And to each his own.

should you ever decide to try it, it's imperative to be keto-adapted. I'll be doing two sessions later this week.
Like a top off. But also it helps the connective tissue that's too hyper mobile in my case become more vital, more fluid. (Of course I have no way to measure this, just appreciate the great improved feeling and less movements inside my skull.)

it's only hard shell tanks that can produce the cell benefits. The soft shell tanks can not act at the cells but they do have other great benefits. One woman said she is fully recovered from 3 months hard shell and three months at home in a soft shell.

there are a host of ME researchers who I've shared my story with one year... and then they shared with me the following year how they have heard more success stories. There is or was 1 study underway if I recall correctly too.
To become keto adapted, it's about 3-6 months. Melatonin can also help the same brain transporters increase as well (MCT), not the oil though. 😂
There are HDAC changes too. In the RNA realm, one becomes less prone to oxidative stress.
In the keto community, this is one of about 5 reasons why we haven't heard of anyone succumbing to Covid19 although some have tested positive and many have been ill, but none in respirators. Ketone ester has also been measured to increase lung capacity in those who tested positive and were getting more and more ill.
 

Hopeful2021

Senior Member
Messages
262
I'm thinking it's a chemical not a signal. Chemical is acting as a block.
A few hundred brain punctures and lots of advanced testing would be needed to even get a pseudo cloudy pic. I'm very happy chemical or signal or a whole new pattern to be able to have movement again. And stability. I sure missed driving and even being a passenger. There's definitely probably hundreds of psychologists and patients and hundreds of millions of pharmaceutical doses that concur with your thought.
Id definitely take that pill after a few thousand others have taken it too and seen results.
sign me up.
 

Jo86

Senior Member
Messages
197
Location
France
@Jo86 i sure hope nasal spray helps you. Do you have trouble digesting certain foods? Have you also tried simple things like B vitamin or glutathione shots? Not as easy to do, but they've been around for decades.
Yes, super unstable gut for years now. Have not tried any of that stuff. It's simply outlandish to docs here. I may have to go looking for one specifically to try those methods.