Could the hydroxychloroquine + zinc coronavirus antiviral combo also work for enterovirus ME/CFS?

[Judee]

Zinc Ionophore Potency (increment in fluorescence ∆)

clioquinol . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57-fold
pyrithione . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 54-fold

The second one on your list, @Hip, got me thinking that if we could get some pyrithione it might work in a similar way. I know they put zinc pyrithione in shampoos for eczema and whatnot but I could not find a source of ingestible zinc pyrithione. However, wikipedia says, "Pyrithione is the common name of an organosulfur compound with molecular formula C5H5NOS, chosen as an abbreviation of pyridinethione..."
It goes on to say, "Pyrithione is found as a natural product in the Allium stipitatum plant, an Asian species of onion, also known as the Persian shallot."
When I click on 'persian shallot' it gives me this info, "Bulbs of Allium stipitatum are eaten in Iran, where they are called موسیر (pronounced /muːˈsiːɾ/)." And, "Pyrithione-containing plant extracts are used in herbal medicine for treatment of malaria."

These are what I found on Amazon here in the US: https://www.amazon.com/Sadaf-Mosir-...eywords=persian+shallot&qid=1597477539&sr=8-5

Anyway, I just thought you might be interested in that as maybe an alternative to green tea if you are able to locate them where you are. ???

Edit: One extra interesting thing I read was here about zinc pyrithione. It said, "The efficacy of ZPT originates from two attributes. First, it has a very broad antimicrobial spectrum of activity, including fungi, gram-positive and -negative bacteria. Second, the material has very low solubility, resulting in formulation and delivery as a particulate material, which has distinct performance advantages. The particles are deposited and retained on the target skin surfaces even when delivered from rinse-off products. These particles slowly release molecularly active material to interact with the surface fungal and bacteria cells to control their population, functioning as slow-release reservoirs to provide extended and persistent benefits. This particulate nature, though, results in complex pharmaceutics to realize the full efficacy benefits; it is common to see products with the same ZPT level having widely varying levels of clinical performance."

Especially interesting that the particles don't rinse off but "slowly release molecularly active material to interact" with what is on the skin.

 

[Hip]

The second one on your list, @Hip, got me thinking that if we could get some pyrithione it might work in a similar way. I know they put zinc pyrithione in shampoos for eczema and whatnot but I could not find a source of ingestible zinc pyrithione.

I looked into pyrithione as an option. This was about 10 years ago, when I was investigating the possibility of using zinc ionophores as an antiviral for enterovirus.

As you say, zinc pyrithione is used in shampoos (anti-dandruff). But I came across the following info, indicating that zinc pyrithione is quite toxic when taken internally:

Anti-dandruff shampoos contain anti-fungal ingredients. One of the most common is zinc pyrithione. It causes little problem for the skin, but don't swallow it: rats allowed to consume the chemical for a fortnight suffered a range of health problems including deformed spines and muscle wastage.

So zinc pyrithione does not seem to be safe when ingested.



The other zinc ionophore substance mentioned in the 2009 coxsackievirus antiviral study in the first post is hinokitiol (also called β-thujaplicin), and this possibly might be safe to take internally in small amounts, as it says here it can be used as an antibacterial food additive. However, I could not find any info about oral usage, or info on safe oral dose levels.

Hinokitiol is found at 2% in Aomori Hiba tree essential oil. But I calculated you would need a hinokitiol daily dose of at least 300 mg to get an antiviral effect, which would correspond to more than a whole 10 ml bottle of the essential oil, which may not be safe to take orally.

 

[Judee]

So zinc pyrithione does not seem to be safe when ingested.

Do you think that would apply to the shallots as well?

 

[Hip]

Do you think that would apply to the shallots as well?

I would guess pyrithione might be present in the Persian shallot in small amounts, so that any toxic effects would be minimal. I could not find any details of the percentage content in the shallots. Sometimes it can just be trace amounts.

It is pyrithione that is found in the shallots, whereas it is zinc pyrithione which was found damaging to spinal cords. I am not sure how toxic pyrithione is on its own.

I think when you add zinc to pyrithione, it may turn into zinc pyrithione, and that becomes the zinc ionophore that carries the zinc into the cells. But I am not entirely sure.

An ionophore of zinc is a special form of zinc chelator, which is able to carry the zinc into the cell.

 

[dahsar]

I did some calculations, and found that the concentration of ivermectin used in the in vitro antiviral studies on coronavirus would not be obtainable in vivo, unless you used massive oral doses of ivermectin (ivermectin usually comes in 3 mg tablets, but my calc showed you would need a dose of around 30 grams to have an antiviral effect).

So I don't think ivermectin is going to have any useful antiviral effect for coronavirus patients. It's possible ivermectin might have some immune modulating effects which are beneficial for coronavirus infection, but that's something different.

Dr Borody has also claimed that his FMT completely and permanently cures ME/CFS. Which of course sounds too good to be true. And when I wrote to his private clinic asking for details, I got no reply.

Hi Hip!

Some patients are doing well with Ivermectin for long haul covid, some with no effect.

 

[Hip]

Some patients are doing well with Ivermectin for long haul covid, some with no effect.

Interesting. Have you got any weblinks to this?

 

[dahsar]

Interesting. Have you got any weblinks to this?

No weblinks only just people from the groups. My friend who has long haul, started taking Ivermectin last night and today he feels great so fingers crossed it lasts. He plans on getting stem cell too. I got you once I find any weblinks, I'll post for sure. People on the Slack groups say that people in Peru are taking Ivermectin for long haul as well.

I will keep you posted! May order some.