Copper - Your Hair Mineral Test

[dannybex]

Copper did wounders for me and helps me tolerate b6. I have no more pins an needles after I added copper and b6 together as these work to make diamine oxidase active. I believe the reason some people don't do well on b6 is due to a copper deficiency. You guys need to break out of your one way tracked minds! Everywhere on the Internet it's alway "too much copper" but in the experience of this kid and me it was to little!! Internet advice goes viral and it blinds people to other possibilities! You can't just assum copper toxicity is what you have! I don't have eczema anymore and my mucous membranes took a turn for the better after b6 and copper.

Very interesting @Dannylingo. I've always had trouble with b6 -- the exact 'pins and needles' thing (and tingling in my toes) whenever I would take even tiny amounts of b6 or p5p. I also have some 'stasis eczema/dermatitis', and lately, very dry mucous membranes.Would love to hear more specific details pre-post copper if possible. I know we're all different, but am also curious what kind of doses you're taking, and if you take the copper with other minerals?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Very interesting @Dannylingo. I've always had trouble with b6 -- the exact 'pins and needles' thing (and tingling in my toes) whenever I would take even tiny amounts of b6 or p5p. I also have some 'stasis eczema/dermatitis', and lately, very dry mucous membranes.Would love to hear more specific details pre-post copper if possible. I know we're all different, but am also curious what kind of doses you're taking, and if you take the copper with other minerals?

Hi Danny, did you ever overcome the troubles with B6 by taking copper?

 

[paul_k]

Copper did wounders for me and helps me tolerate b6. I have no more pins an needles after I added copper and b6 together as these work to make diamine oxidase active. I believe the reason some people don't do well on b6 is due to a copper deficiency. You guys need to break out of your one way tracked minds! Everywhere on the Internet it's alway "too much copper" but in the experience of this kid and me it was to little!! Internet advice goes viral and it blinds people to other possibilities! You can't just assum copper toxicity is what you have! I don't have eczema anymore and my mucous membranes took a turn for the better after b6 and copper.

Hi. This is interesting. When I take b6 I get prickly itchy skin and a rash. My
Blood test showed high copper but I'm confused about the bio unavailable angle. I wonder if I took some cooper how I might react. I have been taking 50mg a day of zinc for 6 months

 

[paul_k]

Very interesting @Dannylingo. I've always had trouble with b6 -- the exact 'pins and needles' thing (and tingling in my toes) whenever I would take even tiny amounts of b6 or p5p. I also have some 'stasis eczema/dermatitis', and lately, very dry mucous membranes.Would love to hear more specific details pre-post copper if possible. I know we're all different, but am also curious what kind of doses you're taking, and if you take the copper with other minerals?

Hi. I know this is an old post now but I have the EXACT same problem with b6 and because I have been avoiding it I am beginning to worry about deficiency as I have been supplementing other b's. Did you ever get to the bottom of this? My bloods show high copper but not sure if it's biounavailable. Thanks

 

[dannybex]

Hi. I know this is an old post now but I have the EXACT same problem with b6 and because I have been avoiding it I am beginning to worry about deficiency as I have been supplementing other b's. Did you ever get to the bottom of this? My bloods show high copper but not sure if it's biounavailable. Thanks

I haven't. And others on the board have the same problem.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...aking-b6-and-feeling-funny-help-please.34126/

I thought that taking higher doses of B2 was helping, and it did for a bit, but now I'm back to square one, so I'm just avoiding it for now. There's also the possibility that B6 could be depleting already low folate levels, and there's also a study that showed that b6 inhibited thiamine, so perhaps if one's thiamine is too low, then lowering it further would cause neuropathy?

But the thread above has a lot of info on it that you might find helpful. Good luck, and let me know if YOU find anything helpful in the future.

 

[dannybex]

I worry about deficiency too, but at the same time, if we're getting reactions from the vitamin, then it's either not being used correctly, or it's depleting other nutrients (as noted above) that may already be too low.

 

[paul_k]

@dannybex thanks for your reply. Interesting what you say about b1. B1 is a co factor for SUOX (breaks down sulfites) along with molybdenum. I wonder if ensuring adequate b1 and molybdenum would better enable us to tolerate b6?
Theory goes that taking b6 will ultimately either make glutathione

 

[paul_k]

Or sulfate via the trans sulfuration pathway. Maybe if we have enough glutathione then sulfites are created in the absence of b1/molybdenum and that's what causes the skin discomfort??

 

[xks201]

copper, b1...all interesting.

 

[dannybex]

@dannybex thanks for your reply. Interesting what you say about b1. B1 is a co factor for SUOX (breaks down sulfites) along with molybdenum. I wonder if ensuring adequate b1 and molybdenum would better enable us to tolerate b6?

That might be a possibility.

 

[kel88]

This is such a interesting conversation.
I have to low ceruloplasmin.
Between 20-60 is normal and my ceruloplasmin is 18.
I did years very wel on zinc, and b6 but now anymore.
My histamin intolerance is getting worse and worse because low intracellulair copper. My bio unavailible copper is to high! ( they did test me in hospital, to low copper, to low ceruloplasmin but to high unbound copper).

But just like with patients with Wilson disease you cant take more copper thats dangerouse.

Because copper gets higher you get lower zinc levels.
Zinc is a co factor for methylation with vitamin b6.
You need zinc to absorb b6. (Make p5p from zinc).

But with to low copper , ceruloplasmin is getting lower and worse.

With low copper and so high histamin you get more and more (food) allergies.
With more histamin /mast cells you get zinc depletion..
Because zinc is a mast cell stabiliser.
Zinc is getting depleted , so no co factor for methylation, is lower glutathion production. But also because of high histamin, more allergies are produced.
And most people with auto-immuun are all low in zinc and have often much Allergies... Now we do understand why moet of us do good on paleo aip and low histamin diet. And why most people with auto-immuun conditions always have depleted zinc levels also with high enough intake. (For example diabetes).

So what now?
I was following a low copper diet and did take high zinc.(just like wilson patients). That was working because it did reduce my copper.( But also my good intracelulair copper even more. )
My neurological symptoms(parkinson like) did went away.
Only it is making my histamin intolerance much worse because low DAO enzym from the liw copper. So now more food allergies and more histamin production. So more depletion of zinc have to take more and more from it.
Taking more copper isnt the answer and dangerouse just like with wilson patients with liw ceruloplasmin. Maybe i have to try a low histamin diet(aip).im looking for een answer into that. If someone had got a clue be my guesst.

(Sorry for the bad englisch, im from the netherlands).

 

[aquariusgirl]

@kel88 you might want to check out this product www.mitosynergy.com

It's a novel form of copper ..so not pro infkammatory like regular copper

I am struggling w/everything you said .,don't know what the answer is

But I didn't realize I was copper deficient until I took this form of copper.

No financial interest & I have run into issues after months of supplementation w/burning off pockets of infection.

 

[kel88]

Aquariusgirl thank you for youre response!
Do you know youre methylation genes?
Most people with methylation problems and adrenal burnout have those issues! And because of low zinc we got infections, sugar problems, thyroid problems ( pyroluria) etcetera.
Also convulsions, muscle twitching because of low magnesium because of low p5p and zinc to absorp magnesium).

So stimukating ceruloplasmin would be the answer but how?
Stimulating the adrenals but not with hydrocortisone because that lowers the ceruloplasmin...
Its difficult!

I will look for the product you mentioned.
But in scared to take copper! Because my (unbound)copper is already to high...
But will defenitly look into that!
Thanks you!

 

[aquariusgirl]

yep, I wouldn't touch regular copper...too scared
morley robbins (think that's his surname) has some ideas on how to build ceruloplasmin...fwiw
the walsh doctors also have thoughts on how to support metallotheineins

 

[dannybex]

Hi. I know this is an old post now but I have the EXACT same problem with b6 and because I have been avoiding it I am beginning to worry about deficiency as I have been supplementing other b's. Did you ever get to the bottom of this?

The other possibility is that B6 issues can be due to problems with tryptophan metabolism. From what I've been reading, if one isn't getting enough niacin, then tryptophan is broken down to 'get' that niacin, and in the process forms a metabolite called quinolinic acid. This is highly toxic -- causes overstimulation of the nerves, anxiety, and is even connected to high suicide rates. In order to lower this level, some suggest taking niacin (non-flush if preferred) which would then hypothetically lower the breakdown of tryptophan into quinolinic.

Niacin is also essential for the krebs (energy) cycle. If you type in quinolinic in the search window you'll pull up more info. I'm definitely going to try some no-flush niacin. I did back in March 2014, and have no record of a negative reaction, so am hoping it will make a big difference. Can't get much worse than I am now...

 

[aquariusgirl]

my ND told me to take niacin for the reasons dannybex suggested and I did for a while but I'm low in folate and I thinkped... it was doing that methyl sponge thing so I stopped ...

 

[Arius]

I'm copper deficient. The doc recommended taking copper and zinc together, since they need to be in balance, for two months. The zinc makes me want to throw up.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I can only take zinc in the middle of lunch or supper.

 

[inomgod]

Can someone recommend a good hair mineral test lab? Where you all got it done?