Cofactors for magnesium absorption into cells?

[cigana]

Hi,

I take magnesium daily (various forms), my blood levels are high, suggesting I'm absorbing it fine, but my cellular and ATP levels are low, suggesting it's not getting into my cells, or the mitochondria.

Can anyone point me to the cofactors that are needed for correct cellular uptake of magnesium? (and/or into the mitochondria)

Thanks.

 

[Little Bluestem]

My notes say that taurine keeps magnesium (and potassium) in the cells. That might help some.

 

[*GG*]

My notes say that taurine keeps magnesium (and potassium) in the cells. That might help some.

Good to know, that is an ingredient that is in one of the supplements, that my Dr "prescribes" for me, started taking it not in combination with the supplement he prescribed, since it is much cheaper that way, and I will not be able to afford to take it that way into the future.

GG

PS This is the supplement:

http://www.rockwellnutrition.com/CraveArrest-caps-by-Designs-For-Health-DFH_p_872.html

 

[Hip]

Yes, it says in Wikipedia that "In cells, taurine keeps potassium and magnesium inside the cell, while keeping excessive sodium out."

Also see this study which found that taurine increases intracellular magnesium in osteoblast cells.

This study found that vitamin B6 raises intracellular magnesium levels in red blood cells, and concludes that "These results support the postulate that vitamin B6 plays a fundamental role in the active transport of minerals across cell membranes."

Note that vitamin B6 + magnesium is an old favorite treatment for autism: Can Vitamin B6 and Magnesium Cure Autism Spectrum Disorder? Perhaps one reason this combination helps autism is due to the increase in intracellular magnesium.


Vitamin E increases intracellular magnesium, see this study.

Glutathione increases red blood cell magnesium, according to this study.

Insulin and IGF-1 increases intracellular magnesium, see here and here.

 

[Hip]

@ggingues
That is a very expensive supplement at $46, and it only contains 50 mg of taurine per serving. When I take taurine, I use doses of 1000 to 3000 mg (1 to 3 grams).

The cheapest way to buy taurine is from a bulk powder supplier like this one (they sell 250 grams of taurine for just $10).

 

[*GG*]

@ggingues
That is a very expensive supplement at $46, and it only contains 50 mg of taurine per serving. When I take taurine, I use doses of 1000 to 3000 mg (1 to 3 grams).

The cheapest way to buy taurine is from a bulk powder supplier like this one (they sell 250 grams of taurine for just $10).

Thanks, looked into this a little bit. Wonder why it is about the same price to buy in bulk than already encapsulated? At least that's what it looks like to me. I bought 50, 1 gram capsules of Taurine from Vitacost for about $2, so 100 grams would be about $4.

GG

 

[Hip]

Vitamin B1 (thiamine) and bicarbonate are two further supplements that may help get magnesium into cells and into mitochondria respectively, according to what I read online:

"The functional thiamine deficiency is an important finding as vitamin B1 is needed to get magnesium into cells. In muscle ATP always works as a complex with magnesium so correcting intracellular magnesium and factors that affect it like thiamine status is important."
Source: here.

"Magnesium functions as a bicarbonate co-transporter into cells. And bicarbonate acts as a transporter of magnesium into the mitochondria. Magnesium influx is linked with bicarbonate transport according to the Dietary Reference Intakes guide from the Institute of Medicine. Magnesium transport into or out of cells requires the presence of carrier-mediated transport systems (Gunther, 1003; Romani et al., 1993). ATPase reaction has a broad pH optimum centering on neutral pH, with little significant activity above pH9.0 or below pH5.5. Thus anything that moves us from overall acid conditions toward alkaline that recover the neutral zone is going to enhance cell metabolism via mitochondrial optimization."
Source: here.

However, I can't find any proper scientific references for the above, unfortunately.

But taking these supplements cannot do any harm, so all in all, a good cocktail of supplements to boost magnesium in cells and in mitochondria might be:

Intracellular Magnesium Boosting Protocol:

Magnesium oil, applied transdermally to skin of body from head to toe (or alternatively apply a saturated solution of Epsom salts on the body instead — see here). Transdermal magnesium is gives you higher Mg doses than oral Mg tablets.
Magnesium oral tablet 400 mg
Vitamin B6 200 mg
Vitamin B1 100 mg
Taurine 4 grams
Vitamin E 400 IU
Glutathione powder 500 mg applied transdermally on the skin, with a few drops of water

 

[cigana]

Thanks Hip, I'm already taking B1 and B6, but will add the baking soda and taurine to my protocol.
( I wonder if this is related to the story of a women's improvement on baking soda: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-health-improvements-using-baking-soda.27011/ )

It might be interesting to some of you to know that you can increase your magnesium intake by a factor of about 5 above bowel tolerance by dissolving the tablets in water and steadily drinking throughout the day (at least this works for me).

However, another thing I've noticed is that I get benefits from taking short concentrated doses rather than larger overall doses spread over time. I think this must be due to a need to increase the blood levels sharply so that the concentration gradients are high enough to get into the cells (this is used by some with T3 dosing). So for me, 2 separate 400mg doses do nothing, whereas a single dose of 800mg has a noticeable effect.

I often wonder if we shouldn't extend this type of dosing to other supplements that require high gradients.

 

[Hip]

@cigana

That's very interesting, regarding the short concentrated doses of magnesium having a better effect on you, presumably due to creating high transient elevations in blood magnesium levels.

I guess that the highest transient blood magnesium elevations are going to achieved by magnesium sulfate injection — something I have never tried, but I understand Dr Sarah Myhill uses this on her ME/CFS patients, often to good effect. Though apparently magnesium sulfate is painful when injected, and also I read that MgSO4 is a bit rough on the veins themselves, which would concern me.

I used to use magnesium primarily for its anti-anxiety effect (at one point I had severe generalized anxiety disorder), and found that oral magnesium at a doses of 400 mg (the maximum my bowels seem to be able to take) did very little for my anxiety, but applying magnesium oil (or concentrated magnesium sulfate solution) transdermally to my skin from head to toe had a pretty noticeable anti-anxiety effect.

Though I imagine that transdermally applied magnesium is absorbed plentifully, but quite slowly over several hours. I certainly noticed that it would take a good 3 to 4 hours for the anti-anxiety effects of transdermal magnesium to kick in, indicating that transdermal magnesium is absorbed relatively slowly from the skin.

Note however that the anti-anxiety benefits of magnesium are probably mediated by its antagonistic effects on the NMDA receptors in the brain, which is a different mechanism to the one we are discussing this thread, namely getting magnesium into cells, and into mitochondria.

One interesting method of administration Dr Myhill mentions on her website is rectal administration. Here you dissolve 250 grams of magnesium sulfate in one liter of water, and then this solution will have 600 mg of elemental magnesium per 20 ml of liquid. To administer, you load 20 ml of this solution into a syringe, push the syringe into the rectum, and squeeze in the liquid, which gives you a 600 mg dose of magnesium.

I should think that rectally administered magnesium will be absorbed pretty rapidly, and therefore will achieve high transient elevations in blood magnesium. The last time I tried rectal administration, though, it gave me diarrhea. But in my case, I have IBS-D, so unfortunately many things tend to precipitate diarrhea in me (if I have a glass of wine, or a mild curry, this will precipitate diarrhea). However, for people with healthier bowels, the rectal route of magnesium administration should be fine.

Other methods of magnesium administration are discussed on this page of Dr Myhill's website.


Note: boron and copper are needed for magnesium absorption and metabolism, so it might be an idea to add these two supplements:

Boron 3 mg
Copper 2 mg

to the intracellular magnesium boosting protocol as well.

 

[dannybex]

My doc keeps insisting that glycine is required for magnesium to get into cells. I'm not sure where this comes from, but did find this quote:"Glutathione requires magnesium for its synthesis. [6] Glutathione synthetase requires ?-glutamyl cysteine, glycine, ATP, and magnesium ions to form glutathione. [7]

http://drsircus.com/medicine/magnesium/magnesium-and-cell-survival-glutathione

 

[Hip]

@dannybex
Someone wrote here that:

"The calcium-magnesium ATPase pump brings the magnesium ion into the cell. I read that when magnesium is chelated to orotate or an amino acid like glycine, magnesium can then be transported into the cell using pathways other than the calcium-magnesium ATPase pump sources."

 

[Snowdrop]

Re: Post #10 and #11
That's why I started using New Roots Magnesium Bisglycinate 150 mg. It also has 30 mg of Taurine, which I see by Hip's post is possibly not really very much.
I do take at least 4 a day.

I am considering Hip's remarks on B6 and may try to include that.
I always find this very confusing and never straight forward. I would like a good multi B vitamin just so I don't boost only B6 (for example) but if I want to do methylation protocol (which I do) then a multi will have B12 and B9. Argggh.
I know from previous experience that I cannot tolerate anything but the tiniest dose of B9.

 

[dannybex]

I can't tolerate the slightest dose of b6 -- even though tests show I'm borderline low in it. sigh...

 

[cigana]

Hi Radio,

Thanks for your reply.
I repaired my cell memebranes with IV phospholipids, as verified by testing before and after.

I'm interested in your low-protein paleo, as I follow the same, although I create my own recipes.

 

[Radio]

Hi Radio,

Thanks for your reply.
I repaired my cell memebranes with IV phospholipids, as verified by testing before and after.

I'm interested in your low-protein paleo, as I follow the same, although I create my own recipes.

Awesome...I really think phospholipid replacement is the only way to repair the aging mitochondria, (Repairing mitochondria , Controlling inflammation) is the key to the Magnesium absorption into the cells. Check out the Low histamine chef paleo book.

 

[joshi81]

interesting.... which test did u run to check the status of your cell membranes?

 

[cigana]

interesting.... which test did u run to check the status of your cell membranes?

It was the Acumen mitochondria and DNA adducts tests.

 

[Radio]

interesting.... which test did u run to check the status of your cell membranes?

Dr Myhill and Dr. Yasko both convinces me that the mitochondria dysfunction is the root cause of CFS. I was on my death bed and phospholipids replacement therapy was the key part of the protocol that heal me. The main testing that i care about is tracking homocysteine levels, minerals and SAM-e levels. We all have damage leaky mitochondia, mast-cell, methylation problems. (That's a fact jack!)

 

[joshi81]

i'm trying to make sense of everything because there are so many thing..and cell membranes surely is one of the many step to go. Anuway you seem to follow fredd's protocol and adding the NT factors to a paleoish diet...
tha point is.. which are the best supplement for the lipid replacement in your opinion? the NT Factors? and about the diet you follow .. if it is low in meat and no grains (i imagine if it's paleo) what do you fill yourself with? I really tried avery diet down to earth so i don't have problems in changing food abits but sometimes it get difficult to find what to eat if you limit many things... what about you?

 

[joshi81]

For example i have low Homocisteine...