Choose the order: Oximatrine, Olmesartan, Famciclovir, Inosine Pranobex and Cycloferon.
- Thread starter nsdn
- Start date
In rats, yes. It showed therapeutic effects due to inhibiting NF kB.
But where is the single case study that what happened with Adalimumab in one person (side-effect incidence of 1 to how many millions taking this pharmaceutical drug daily?), also ever happened in someone taking curcumin supplements?
Red emphasis added by me.
Last edited:
JES
Senior Member
- Messages
- 1,374
My understanding is that biologic medication like Adelimumab bind to TNF-alpha and block it fully. Curcumin does not work in this way and can at most only partially block TNF-alpha, so they are not comparable. Bupropion is another medication that only reduces TNF-alpha instead of fully blocking it. I always wondered why they don't use bupropion more instead of these potentially dangerous and expensive biologic drugs, but I guess money talks.
uglevod
Senior Member
- Messages
- 220
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12244188
IFN-gamma-induced killing of T. gondii appeared to be partially mediated by TNF-alpha, and addition of TNF-alpha could compensate for the abrogated killing of T. gondii in the patient's macrophages.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214250916300300
Our case report illustrates the increased risk of toxoplasmosis in RA patients treated with anti-TNFα therapy. Indeed, it is suspected that the IFN-γ adalimumab-related inhibitory effect may favor T. gondii replication and reactivation.
Toxo is one of my chronic infections. The world's seropositivity for toxo is very high: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii
In humans, T. gondii is one of the most common parasites in developed countries;serological studies estimate that 30–50% of the global population has been exposed to and may be chronically infected with T. gondii, although infection rates differ significantly from country to country.
I suspect TNF-alpha is required for sustainability against chronic Lyme too.
Yes, its only one documented case(as with toxo), but for me it is still telling(especially when packed with studies of the TNF-alpha impact on immune response towards infections). Don't forget official medical community don't even accept that the chronic lyme infection exists, the market value of anti-inflammatory drugs like TNF-alpha inhibitors and general emphasis towards immune suppression as a treatment strategy for every case of chronic disease(think prednisone, etc).
@JES, your avatar reminded me of this:
Last edited:
It is one thing to speculate without any evidence, a completely other to accuse a respected member of this community out of such speculation of lack in ethics.
Last edited:
uglevod
Senior Member
- Messages
- 220
What? anti-inflammatory supplements is pushed on every corner.
I accused no one personally just the general state of things - i.e. how most of the supplements are used/pushed these days..Yeah, sure - now prove that this "clinical trial" was not funded by the curcumin "shops" for further reference.
... or prove that nf-cappa-b inhibition is safe.
Why should I trust the study, authors of which did not even mention a possible drawbacks of nf-cappa-b inhibition?
Thanks for clarifying that. It seamed since you came with that accusation in response to Hip. Who does recommend trials with 3 g/d of Turmeric, which he found to be very helpful in his case.
... or prove that nf-cappa-b inhibition is safe.
Already quoted a study which showed that little NF kB inhibition which cucurmin would be able to with up to 10 g/d is non-toxic.
But you seem so much in enamored by your speculation due to 1 single case report with a syntetic NR-kB inhibitor, that you now ask me for evidence to prove it wrong - for a speculation you coudn't provide any evidence to begin with?
uglevod
Senior Member
- Messages
- 220
I've also provided 2 reports where TNF-alpha inhibitor was suspected to be a reason for chronic infection proliferation.
These two(TNF-alpha and Nf-cappa-b) seems to be interlinked: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8530143
I'am sure If I'll dig PubMed I'll find a study where Nf-cappa-b inhibition influences TNF levels.
Anyway, its obvious from multiple studies that Nf-cappa-b inhibition down-regulates the immune system and also the quoted study was taken against apparently healthy controls(not my case so is completely irrelevant).
P.S. @Hip in my foggy brain is associated with NAG and I remember his report on Olm with a symptom of mild photo-sensitivity and anhedonia improvement. Actually before trying Olm, I've collected all web data on MP I could find, including Hip's report. Both my several decades-length anhedonia and anxiety got slightly improved after about 18 months of Olmesartan.
It really sucks to realize that my unhealthy mental state(chronic brain inflammation) for the best part of the life was due to chronic, low grade persistent immune response against chronic infection(s), which MP(Olmesartan) just made obvious.. Now I hope the symptoms resolution will not take like the other part of my life, heh.
I've tried Nf-cappa-b inhibition(https://mpkb.org/home/othertreatments/quercetin) several times while on Olmesartan and it heavily palliated my brain - made unrested sleep solid, reduced anxiety, moved ADHD symptoms out of the edge into a more managed state, etc.
Beside your base-less speculations, first of all high NF-kb is highly associated with chronic inflammation:
Introduction to NF-κB
NF-κB (nuclear factor kappa-light-chain-enhancer of activated B cells) is a protein complex that reads and copies the DNA (a transcription factor).
NF-kB is the single most important factor in causing inflammation in the body and virtually all popular herbs inhibit this protein complex (in many/most cells of the body). Other proteins that are very popular in the literature are the cytokines TNF, IL-1, and IL-6, but NF-kB largely controls the production of these and other cytokines.
NF-κB is activated in response to stress, cytokines (like IL-1b [R] and TNF), free radicals, ultraviolet irradiation, oxidized LDL, and bacterial or viral infections, cocaine, and ionizing radiation. See a full list below. With cytokines, the effect is bi-directional, as it induces cytokines and is induced bycytokines.
Oxidative stress/ROS/Free radicals is an important inducer of NF-KB.
NF-κB plays a key role in regulating the immune response to infection. Chronic activation of NF-κB has been linked to cancer, inflammatory, and autoimmune diseases. Too little activation leads to susceptibility to viral infection and improper immune development.
Though I haven't tested NF-kB, with all other inflammation marker regularly tested I can be certain mine to be elevated. CRP in average at 2.8 mg/L (optimal <1) and ESR at 20 mm/hr (<16). Never too low, but many times too high.
Though I practice most of those lifestyle and supplemental interventions to reduce NF-kB since 10 years, the results showing in my chronic inflammation markers is rather mediocre. Nevertheless, no side-effects, but a 60% walking-disability from a 80% blockage at my abdominal aorta bifurcation (PAD) meanwhile reversed thereby.
Of course if you're that convinced of your speculation - and rather not have easy to take blood tests as evidence against - you could even activate NF-kB to see of your theses has any benefits (just joking, don't!)
All things in moderation, specially NF kB.
Last edited:
nsdn
Senior Member
- Messages
- 184
Hi. I'll start with Oxymatrine in 2 weeks. I have 200 capsules of 300 mg. The studies talk about 2 capsules a day. Is it advisable to try to go up to 3 or is it better to spend more time in my 2-capsules test? Thank you!
Last edited:
Hip
Senior Member
- Messages
- 18,164
I understand that you start of slowly, with 1 capsule a day, and monitor any worsening of symptoms. If after a few days or a week you are fine with that, then you can move to 2 capsules a day (one in the morning, the other in the evening). Then after some more days you can move up to 3 capsules.
In this way you keep increasing the dose. In the past Dr Chia has taken patients up to 6 capsules a day, but I've read that more recently he seems to be limiting this ti 4 capsules (at least for some patients).
Symptoms may get worse before they get better.
I'd suggest searching this forum for "oxymatrine" and reading the posts and threads on this subject.
nsdn
Senior Member
- Messages
- 184
Hi.
With what conventional laboratory tests can I know that it is safe to take Oxymatrine? I ask about the issue of autoimmunity.
Best regards.
With what conventional laboratory tests can I know that it is safe to take Oxymatrine? I ask about the issue of autoimmunity.
Best regards.
heapsreal
iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
- Messages
- 10,225
- Location
- australia (brisbane)
Just mention artesunate can help with different infections and may help some people.
nsdn
Senior Member
- Messages
- 184
Hi. I have started 1 capsule of Oxymatrine every 12 hours. Is it a good idea to also take LDN? Thank you.
Last edited:
nsdn
Senior Member
- Messages
- 184
Hip
Senior Member
- Messages
- 18,164
I believe you can take LDN with oxymatrine; however, it may not be a good idea to start both treatments at the same time, as if improvements in symptoms appear, or significant side effects appear, you may not be able to tell which treatment is causing them.
Having said that, I have often started two treatments at the same time, just because you want to find something that helps as quick as possible.
nsdn
Senior Member
- Messages
- 184
Thank you @Hip
I left everything including the LDN before doing the analysis of the Spanish study of the NK last week.
I think it's best that the LDN wait.
Another doubt. It is very easy to take Oxymatrine every 12 hours. Could I take 1.5 capsules every 12 hours when I increase the dose or should I take 1 every 8 hours?
Thank you.
I left everything including the LDN before doing the analysis of the Spanish study of the NK last week.
I think it's best that the LDN wait.
Another doubt. It is very easy to take Oxymatrine every 12 hours. Could I take 1.5 capsules every 12 hours when I increase the dose or should I take 1 every 8 hours?
Thank you.
Last edited:
heapsreal
iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
- Messages
- 10,225
- Location
- australia (brisbane)
I like the idea of one thing at a time as its easier to judge its effectiveness. Once you jave tried both seperately, try noth together. I basically agree with hip.