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Cheeks are always red, is it a symptom

overtheedge

Senior Member
Messages
258
Still trying to narrow down the cause of my fatigue

I've read in different places that rosy cheeks in those not imbibing in alcohol is a sign of low stomach acid and/or LGS but so far treatments I've aimed at those areas have accomplished little, although, don't let that discourage anyone from trying to supplement stomach acid as supplementation in the past helped me immensely it is just recently that I cannot take supplementary acid without gut burning a few hours later and I can't remember if my cheeks were rosy back then years ago when I did correct my stomach acid levels.

What does having rosy cheeks indicate? Does anyone else have this?
 

me/cfs 27931

Guest
Messages
1,294
Dr. Bell describes a facial flush as a sign of ME/CFS in pediatric ME/CFS.
Dr. David S. Bell said:
There are minor differences between adolescent ME/CFS and the adult ME/CFS. One is that abdominal pain is more common while this symptom is not even a part of some adult symptom criteria. In addition, facial flushing is more common in teens.

I recall once when walking down the street in Lyndonville, I saw a teen with bright red facial flushing. He became ill within one or two days and remained ill for years. I made the mistake once of calling this a rash, but it is not a rash, it is flushing – the same as an adult can have when taking niacin.

In some of the early outbreaks, this flushing rash is also mentioned and considered a standard symptom, one that involves the autonomic nervous system, as this part of the nervous system controls the diameter of the blood vessels.

https://www.omf.ngo/2016/06/25/mecfs-in-children-by-dr-david-s-bell-2/
 

JaimeS

Senior Member
Messages
3,408
Location
Silicon Valley, CA
@daisybell -- burst capillaries in the cheeks might be a thing, too; when I went to KDM he commented on this symptom. IMO, in my case it was because I'd just been on a flight. It was not always the case for me. But if you have so much vascular fragility that a plane flight causes that characteristic mottled flush, then yep... it was treated as a sign by my knowledgeable ME/CFS doc.
 

anne_likes_red

Senior Member
Messages
1,103
Dr. Bell describes a facial flush as a sign of ME/CFS in pediatric ME/CFS.

Cr*p. Both my boys have this, but only on a certain level of exertion. It's noticeable how different they are from their peers though under the same exertion.
I also had this symptom pre (official) ME onset.
I have been researching on and off...and basically concluded it's an autonomic nervous system issue too. Yes, just like niacin flush.
 

duncan

Senior Member
Messages
2,240
Interesting. I don't always get a flushed face, but I usually do whenever I have to focus for a while, like when I'm in a car for a spell. Almost invariably, a day later I crash.

I wonder if there is a correlation with high C02 levels. A couple ME/CFS experts I know might write it off to hyperventilation (it being the flushed face and CO2 levels), but I tend to attribute it to a corrupted ANS.
 

antherder

Senior Member
Messages
456
I do get this, but it's not constant.

Facial flushing can be a symptom of mast cell disorders. Also a response to sulfites in foods and drinks.

Then there's the Lupus butterfly rash, which can apparently(?) just be reddness, without an actual rash.

Edit: Also, if I eat too many high sulfur foods in one meal, that seems to make my face red. A lot of supplements are sulfur compounds, so this might be worth checking as a contributing factor if you think you could have problems tolerating high sulfur.
 
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charles shepherd

Senior Member
Messages
2,239
One condition that should always be considered in someone who has ME/CFS like syptoms plus a facial 'butterfly' rash is lupus/SLE

If you haven't already shown this rash to your doctor you need to do so

There are various immunological tests that can help to confirm or exclude a diagnois of SLE

SLE facial rash:

2108465178_7c805df3cf_m.jpg




http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2080/2108465178_7c805df3cf_m.jpg

As others have pointed out, there are other causes of red cheeks that also need to be considered here

Dr Charles Shepherd
Hon Medical Adviser, MEA
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
Not sure if this has already been mentioned but rosy cheeks (if part of an allergic reaction) can also be facial flushing or angiodema from MCAS (mast cell disease).
 

Jill

Senior Member
Messages
209
Location
Auckland, NZ
My partner gets it . It responds to hydrocortisone but it's a pain to look so well! He looks like he's just come back from a great skiiing weekend !
 

Forbin

Senior Member
Messages
966
When consuming alcohol (ethanol), susceptible individuals, mainly of Asian descent, can get deep flushing of the face. It's due to a genetic impairment in the process that converts the ethanol metabolite, acetaldehyde, into acetate. This leads to high levels acetaldehyde in the blood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_flush_reaction

It may be coincidence, but, in auto-brewery syndrome, overgrowth of a type of yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae) in the gut produces symptoms similar to ME/CFS by essentially fermenting ethanol in the gut. People with this condition and impairment of alcohol metabolism can get effects (I presume from acetaldehyde buildup) even if very little ethanol is produced.
A variant occurs in persons with liver abnormalities that prevent them from excreting or breaking down alcohol normally. Patients with this condition can develop symptoms of auto-brewery syndrome even when the gut yeast produces a quantity of alcohol that is too small to intoxicate a healthy individual.[8]

The effects of the disease can have profound effects on everyday life. As well, the recurring side effects of excessive belching, dizziness, dry mouth, hangovers, disorientation, irritable bowel syndrome, and chronic fatigue syndrome can lead to other health problems such as depression, anxiety and poor productivity in employment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-brewery_syndrome.

I do recall that part of the early candida (yeast) hypothesis for the generation of ME/CFS-like symptoms had to do with acetaldehyde; the difference being that, in that theory, acetaldehyde was being produced directly by candida colonies in the gut (rather than by ethanol being metabolized by the liver).
 
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overtheedge

Senior Member
Messages
258
Do you have gastro symptoms after eating @overtheedge?

Rosacea can be linked with SIBO. I developed it alongside worsening of SIBO and it got a little better when taking Rifaximin to treat SIBO.
No gastro symptoms after eating, I've done allergy diets and looked for such symptoms specifically too but didn't notice any

My doc n I have been trying to treat the gut infections that always show up on stool tests and breath tests but other infections always take their place, might notice a slight improvement on the first day I take antimicrobials but not much after that

I do get this, but it's not constant.

Facial flushing can be a symptom of mast cell disorders. Also a response to sulfites in foods and drinks.

Then there's the Lupus butterfly rash, which can apparently(?) just be reddness, without an actual rash.

Edit: Also, if I eat too many high sulfur foods in one meal, that seems to make my face red. A lot of supplements are sulfur compounds, so this might be worth checking as a contributing factor if you think you could have problems tolerating high sulfur.

When you say mast cell disorders does that just include mast cell activation syndrome or are there others I should be looking into.

Found this info on mast cell activation syndrome on wikipedia

Symptoms consistent with chronic/recurrent mast cell release:
Recurrent abdominal pain, diarrhea, flushing, itching, nasal congestion, coughing, chest tightness, wheezing, lightheadedness (usually a combination of some of these symptoms is present)

Laboratory evidence of mast cell mediator (N-methyl histamine, prostaglandin D2 or 11-beta- prostaglandin F2 alpha, leukotriene E4 and others)

In addition to the face redness I do also have nasal congestion/coughing that wont go away after years, might have to get tested.
 

NelliePledge

Senior Member
Messages
807
Very interesting thread. A lot of the time my face looks what can basically be described as grey. :( I'm post menopausal so don't get hot flushes any more but in social situations if I crack and have a glass or two of wine I get very red faced. Equally with over exertion I go very red faced. Always thought that it was down to being overweight and unfit but I think it is something I need to reconsider.
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
When you say mast cell disorders does that just include mast cell activation syndrome or are there others I should be looking into.

I have seen them classified in many different ways but the two major distinctions are mastocytosis (which is a form of cancer and means you have too many mast cells that keep growing) vs. MCAS in which you have a normal number of mast cells (no cancer) but the ones that you have are "behaving badly". The symptoms of each can be identical in nature and severity but testing will show the difference.

Laboratory evidence of mast cell mediator (N-methyl histamine, prostaglandin D2 or 11-beta- prostaglandin F2 alpha, leukotriene E4 and others)

Another common test is Tryptase. I was always negative on Tryptase but usually positive on methyl-histamine, PG D2 and PG F2 alpha. In my most recent testing, even though my MCAS symptoms and allergic reactions are in remission, the prostaglandins remain extremely high (in the thousands) and not sure why!
 

PennyIA

Senior Member
Messages
728
Location
Iowa
A lot of you are bringing up temporary signs. Do any of you see long-term discoloration? My doc has dismissed my questions about it. But my nose is bright red 100% of the time for the last couple of years.

Similar to someone who is an alcoholic (but I rarely have one drink, let alone enough to cause any type of liver damage).

I don't see signs of anything unique... but it's just like the skin is actually discolored. I used to get a lot of black heads on my nose... but instead of getting black heads and enlarged pores - now I have red skin that seems a bit thicker than usual.
 

me/cfs 27931

Guest
Messages
1,294
A lot of you are bringing up temporary signs. Do any of you see long-term discoloration? My doc has dismissed my questions about it. But my nose is bright red 100% of the time for the last couple of years.

Similar to someone who is an alcoholic (but I rarely have one drink, let alone enough to cause any type of liver damage).

I don't see signs of anything unique... but it's just like the skin is actually discolored. I used to get a lot of black heads on my nose... but instead of getting black heads and enlarged pores - now I have red skin that seems a bit thicker than usual.
Yes. IPL (laser) treatments significantly helped the redness and burning sensation on my face and neck.