Cfs and me may be infectious and it does have outbreaks

[Viala]

They say it is infectious and groups do have outbreaks, but if it was infectious
Why didnt it spread ? Or the trigger spread world wide at the same time?
Why does it skip the larger population?

My guess is because it's highly localized. Lake Tahoe is an interesting example, it was speculated here that it's a form of cyanobacteria or something that can be in the air. It can be viral, fungal, bacterial or anything else. Then some people may be more susceptible to ME than others. It can also be not a single trigger, but two or even three triggers that may be necessary in developing ME. It can be genetics, food, microbiome changes, air quality, building quality, immune system strength, diet type.

I've looked into sick building syndrome a while ago, a lot of people talk about mold induced ME, that theoretically would fit the criteria of infection, but the only infectious part would be mold only. Then the trigger is gone, but the body is stuck in a loop.

Is the cfs/me term just over used in the medical field just as a general term for an unknown sickness?

I think we can't know that for sure since we do not have official ME/CFS biomarker, we can go by symptoms mostly. I suspect a lot of these cases are ME though and that this disease is severly underdiagnosed worldwide. It is said that 20-30 million people globally are affected, but it can be more.

Oh and also welcome to the forum

 

[I am sick]

I tend to think ME/CFS shows more signs of being infection spread rather than genetics driven because so few with shared genetics suffer from it but households have a small notable tendency for multiple sufferers which aren't necessarily related. Most people report it occurring right after infection so it makes sense its related to outbreaks.

Hi
Thier are a few responding in some of my other threads , that one of thier parents had it and they developed it.
Some developed it close to the same time as their parent and others 10 to 20 years latter.

It could be genetics.
When I done an ancester DNA test
I had a lot of people I knew that I did not even know We were closely related , they didnt either untill my match popped up on thier report.
I have tens of thousands of matches that I have a high percentage of being kin to.
How reliable are DNA matches ?
I dont know ?

Doing a family tree my family dates back to BCE . Or that is what it shows anyway.
Basically we all carry most of the same genes , some are dormant and some are active in others.

 

[I am sick]

My guess is because it's highly localized. Lake Tahoe is an interesting example, it was speculated here that it's a form of cyanobacteria or something that can be in the air. It can be viral, fungal, bacterial or anything else. Then some people may be more susceptible to ME than others. It can also be not a single trigger, but two or even three triggers that may be necessary in developing ME. It can be genetics, food, microbiome changes, air quality, building quality, immune system strength, diet type.

I've looked into sick building syndrome a while ago, a lot of people talk about mold induced ME, that theoretically would fit the criteria of infection, but the only infectious part would be mold only. Then the trigger is gone, but the body is stuck in a loop.



I think we can't know that for sure since we do not have official ME/CFS biomarker, we can go by symptoms mostly. I suspect a lot of these cases are ME though and that this disease is severly underdiagnosed worldwide. It is said that 20-30 million people globally are affected, but it can be more.

Oh and also welcome to the forum

Hi and Thanks
I had the same thoughts , so I decided to look for the earliest reported cases
When the population density and enviromental impacts were or should have been the lowest .
Also all the foods and meats should have been as close to being all natural .
Then I started researching items that were introduced a short time prior to 1934.
Some items I found
1- Electricity was becoming common in most homes.
2- Home radios were being introduced.
3- Black and White tv's were becoming popular.
All of these would have been producing high Emf's and Radiations
And exposer rates had to be very high
To people since testing did not exist
So the items could be better shiedled
Internally.
This is the route I decided to start with.

 

[I am sick]

I apologize if I did not respond to someone with my cfs/me or whatever it is , I am having a short attention span and terrible grammer!

 

[Dysfunkion]

I tend to think ME/CFS shows more signs of being infection spread rather than genetics driven because so few with shared genetics suffer from it but households have a small notable tendency for multiple sufferers which aren't necessarily related. Most people report it occurring right after infection so it makes sense its related to outbreaks.

Yeah if it was infectious in itself I would've seen that around me but I have never spread ME/CFS to anyone despite the sickness symptoms even when technically not sick with anything. From all my time on the net and reading so many peoples experiences there seems to be 3 main groups. You have the post-viral illness people, the mold toxicity people, and post other bacterial infection people like those in the lyme bubble. Often there's a lot of overlap. Then you have people with super specific presentations in the post-drug illness bubble with a lot of symptom overlap though they don't typically identify themselves as having ME as much as they just acknowledge they're a gut, immune, and neurological train wreck.

However you end up here doesn't really seem to matter since generally you're just genetically prone to some cluster of symptoms than others probably. It could play a role in how you go about treating it if you really get into going by your genetics but so far no one has been able to cure anyone from what I've seen as much as get them to mild with some lifestyle adjustments, meds/supplements/diet combo, and pray they stay there. I mean they could just breathe the wrong way one day though and fall apart again which is what I need to have sense of humor about these days with the fragile state of things.

 

[I am sick]

It can't be infectious and not infectious at the same time, unless there are different triggers.

These outbreaks can share one triggering factor that caused people who spend a lot of time in the same building or area to get sick. Not necessarily meaning it is infectious. Trigger can be, ME isn't. Outbreaks or not, it might as well been an experiment since locations are perfect, it wouldn't be the first time. So now we do not have outbreaks, unless someone wants to count LC in.

Hi
My guess is because it's highly localized. Lake Tahoe is an interesting example,

Would you have a date for the Lake Tahoe example ? I have something I want to check.
Thanks

 

[I am sick]

Yeah if it was infectious in itself I would've seen that around me but I have never spread ME/CFS to anyone despite the sickness symptoms even when technically not sick with anything. From all my time on the net and reading so many peoples experiences there seems to be 3 main groups. You have the post-viral illness people, the mold toxicity people, and post other bacterial infection people like those in the lyme bubble. Often there's a lot of overlap. Then you have people with super specific presentations in the post-drug illness bubble with a lot of symptom overlap though they don't typically identify themselves as having ME as much as they just acknowledge they're a gut, immune, and neurological train wreck.

However you end up here doesn't really seem to matter since generally you're just genetically prone to some cluster of symptoms than others probably. It could play a role in how you go about treating it if you really get into going by your genetics but so far no one has been able to cure anyone from what I've seen as much as get them to mild with some lifestyle adjustments, meds/supplements/diet combo, and pray they stay there. I mean they could just breathe the wrong way one day though and fall apart again which is what I need to have sense of humor about these days with the fragile state of things.

Hi
I agree that a lot of people are taking different approaches looking for answers.
And most of us are trying the same vitamins and supplements and other uncontrolled medications and we are all having the same failure !
Nothing has cured anyone.

A two week trial my Dr wanted to try
Changed my life completely , i was a new person, no fatigue , my feeling hot like my clothes were going to catch on fire at any time disappeared .
The trial was 30mg prednisone every day for two weeks. Then a few days after i was weaned off the prednisone
I had a full body radiating experience and i felt 18 again.
It only lasted 6 days and then I had kidney stone removal surgery and when I woke up in recovery all my symptons were back.
To me that prednisone test indicated sever inflamation.

What's causing my immune system to produce the inflamation is still unknown.
Five different immune suppressors have not worked.

My Dr second trial was Adderall 10 mg daily. It has not cured anything but I have energy of course since it is a stimulant , but now I am not bedridden now.
We both know it is a patch and that it does come with a cost.
The energy it is providing has to come from somewhere.

 

[Dysfunkion]

Hi
I agree that a lot of people are taking different approaches looking for answers.
And most of us are trying the same vitamins and supplements and other uncontrolled medications and we are all having the same failure !
Nothing has cured anyone.

A two week trial my Dr wanted to try
Changed my life completely , i was a new person, no fatigue , my feeling hot like my clothes were going to catch on fire at any time disappeared .
The trial was 30mg prednisone every day for two weeks. Then a few days after i was weaned off the prednisone
I had a full body radiating experience and i felt 18 again.
It only lasted 6 days and then I had kidney stone removal surgery and when I woke up in recovery all my symptons were back.
To me that prednisone test indicated sever inflamation.

What's causing my immune system to produce the inflamation is still unknown.
Five different immune suppressors have not worked.

My Dr second trial was Adderall 10 mg daily. It has not cured anything but I have energy of course since it is a stimulant , but now I am not bedridden now.
We both know it is a patch and that it does come with a cost.
The energy it is providing has to come from somewhere.

Yes see things like that! I've also had non-repeatable situations similar where something I did made me feel almost normal for a day or 2 (my windows usually don't make it further than that) and then its back to if positive a slightly better baseline but largely the same old everything. I'm kind of afraid to touch stimulants because on one hand I can get dependent too quickly and on the other it could go the opposite direction energy wise and completely backfire. But these prove that it's like something going wrong that can simply be switched off but it never does or at least can't for long until it just starts up again. I've always leaned on it having the most auto-immune component because of this.

I see that "hot feeling" pop up with so many of us, whatever that is, is central to a lot of what is going on but so far no one has been able to do anything but take educated guesses. Some people get it all over their body, I mostly get it in my neck/head/face/forehead. When it goes away so does a lot of that general brain pressure feeling. The only things that touch it are serrapeptase, lumbrokinase (though this made my fatigue infinitely worse and I'm struggling to get myself to try another capsule), and I can temporarily beat it back with about an hour or so of a delay with my red light. Currently it's just fluctuating throughout the day and there will be times where it feels like it's starting to leave but never really does and switches location a bit. All I know if I'm sick of whoever has pouring chili oil into my brain every single day.

 

[andyguitar]

It appears that isolated groups and tribes are very healthy when left alone, and outsiders are not giving them diseases.
The hunters and gatherers being isolated with low enviromentals stresses Do not have all the diseases we have.

Some other points you might want to consider..... 1) Some pathogens and the animals that carry them cannot survive in a cold climate. 2) The effect of keeping livestock, as many domesticated animals carry pathogens that can infect humans, like pigs, chickens and ducks.

 

[Viala]

Would you have a date for the Lake Tahoe example ? I have something I want to check.
Thanks

I think it should be on the list you linked.

 

[andyguitar]

Winter 1985 was the Incline village outbreak.

 

[I am sick]

Yes see things like that! I've also had non-repeatable situations similar where something I did made me feel almost normal for a day or 2 (my windows usually don't make it further than that) and then its back to if positive a slightly better baseline but largely the same old everything. I'm kind of afraid to touch stimulants because on one hand I can get dependent too quickly and on the other it could go the opposite direction energy wise and completely backfire. But these prove that it's like something going wrong that can simply be switched off but it never does or at least can't for long until it just starts up again. I've always leaned on it having the most auto-immune component because of this.

I see that "hot feeling" pop up with so many of us, whatever that is, is central to a lot of what is going on but so far no one has been able to do anything but take educated guesses. Some people get it all over their body, I mostly get it in my neck/head/face/forehead. When it goes away so does a lot of that general brain pressure feeling. The only things that touch it are serrapeptase, lumbrokinase (though this made my fatigue infinitely worse and I'm struggling to get myself to try another capsule), and I can temporarily beat it back with about an hour or so of a delay with my red light. Currently it's just fluctuating throughout the day and there will be times where it feels like it's starting to leave but never really does and switches location a bit. All I know if I'm sick of whoever has pouring chili oil into my brain every single day.

Hi
When my symptons started I might have them for a few months then be fine up to six months , over a span of
Two years.
Then it turned into constant fatigue without any good days to the present date.

I have the burning hot feeling from head to toes 24/7 now.
I can walk in the snow wearing a Tshirt , shorts and flip flops without any relief and I dont limit my exposure to prevent frostbite and hypertherma.

I never measure any temperature above 98.6 , my thyroids have been tested multiple times and they are fine.

My white blood cells are always normal.

Everyone that reads what I tried yesterday will have a huge laugh!
Be prepared !

So yesterday I made myself a thick tinfoil hat with the shiny side facing out, it covered my head from my eyebrows down to the base of my skull, the only thing was not covered was my eyes, nose and mouth.
My wife walked into the room and asked me Do you need me to take you somwhere ! Ha Ha Ha!

After wearing the hat for 10 minutes my heart rate increased and I had a tingling sensation in both hands.
Both things went back to normal 5 minutes latter after I removed the hat.
Yeah I am desperate to feel better.

So did you have a big laugh ?

 

[Viala]

Then I started researching items that were introduced a short time prior to 1934.
Some items I found
1- Electricity was becoming common in most homes.
2- Home radios were being introduced.
3- Black and White tv's were becoming popular.
All of these would have been producing high Emf's and Radiations

I am not sure about exact dates but it was also the time when vaxes were introduced and the water started to be sanitized properly, the addition of chlorine or fluoride could change our microbiomes. EMFs can be a factor here, the question is if the signal was strong enough but it could also be a matter of dirty electricity, similar to what we had with old monitors, or worse. I am not sure if that was the case influencing outbreaks, but who knows? It can definitely be a factor today, along with low quality food.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I was with the same partner for around 15 years.

My husband never "caught" this either. But then he never caught almost anything. Over fifty years, maybe he had a cold twice that I can recall. My husband did not even get COVID while in long term care facility.

 

[I am sick]

I think it should be on the list you linked.

Thanks
I thought you were referring to that date , but I wanted to be sure.

Here is something interesting
I thought about a few things that those places could have in common
I have checked at least the top eight and through searching Ai produced the same results with the year the outbreaks appeared.
All had documented meteror showers
Per Ai response.
Please search at least one in the top eight.
I would be interested in the results you get.
Thanks

 

[Viala]

So yesterday I made myself a thick tinfoil hat with the shiny side facing out, it covered my head from my eyebrows down to the base of my skull, the only thing was not covered was my eyes, nose and mouth.
My wife walked into the room and asked me Do you need me to take you somwhere ! Ha Ha Ha!

After wearing the hat for 10 minutes my heart rate increased and I had a tingling sensation in both hands.
Both things went back to normal 5 minutes latter after I removed the hat.
Yeah I am desperate to feel better.

So did you have a big laugh ?

In a good way, EHS is real. Tin foil hat is not enough, you would have to be covered entirely like in a Faraday cage, any place that is uncovered will spill the radiation inside. If you aren't covered entirely, it will work like antenna and make things worse. I remember some science guys tested it with proper equipment, that video should be somewhere online. There are people who have their whole houses shielded, single rooms or beds. Some houses have a lot of dirty electricity, LED bulbs can also be dirty. I'd start with this first because that can be a serious issue, also any other electrical device.

 

[I am sick]

My husband never "caught" this either. But then he never caught almost anything. Over fifty years, maybe he had a cold twice that I can recall. My husband did not even get COVID while in long term care facility.

That is very interesting.
Thanks for Sharing

 

[I am sick]

I am not sure about exact dates but it was also the time when vaxes were introduced and the water started to be sanitized properly, the addition of chlorine or fluoride could change our microbiomes. EMFs can be a factor here, the question is if the signal was strong enough but it could also be a matter of dirty electricity, similar to what we had with old monitors, or worse. I am not sure if that was the case influencing outbreaks, but who knows? It can definitely be a factor today, along with low quality food.

I have worked with low voltage Ac 120 to 220 with both 50 and 60 hertz and high voltage 3 phase up to 21,000 volts and Dc voltage up to 600 volts most of my life and Yes I have been shocked a few times!
If you look at the place you live in,
No matter where you stand you are completely surrounded by electrical wires in the walls and over head in the ceiling and somtimes under the floors. Home and building wiring only has insulation on the wires, No shielding outer coating.
Same way in a vehicle though you only have 12 to 14 volts Dc.
I dont know the voltage the hybrid or all battery vehicles.

microbiomes- I have read that we dont have some of the microorganisms we use to have. Some types have dissapeared

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Doing a family tree my family dates back to BCE . Or that is what it shows anyway.

I"m descended from a famous historic stomach ache, circa 870 AD.

 

[I am sick]

In a good way, EHS is real. Tin foil hat is not enough, you would have to be covered entirely like in a Faraday cage, any place that is uncovered will spill the radiation inside. If you aren't covered entirely, it will work like antenna and make things worse. I remember some science guys tested it with proper equipment, that video should be somewhere online. There are people who have their whole houses shielded, single rooms or beds. Some houses have a lot of dirty electricity, LED bulbs can also be dirty. I'd start with this first because that can be a serious issue, also any other electrical device.

I thought about that as well but didnt have enough tinfoil lol.
I thought the heart needed a shield as well because it produces current to beat. Everything in our body is creating a type of electrial I/o signal.
I wonder how a shielded room feels?

I thought about lights also and led's light spectrum and their frequency.
We still use incandesant bulbs in our home.

My wife has 2 main store chains she goes to and she has to cover up almost all of her body parts and wear thick lense sunglasses.
If she goes into these two stores she instantly gets dizzy and has to sit down. And any exposed skin instantly turns red and slightly burns for a few days.