Cfs and me may be infectious and it does have outbreaks

I am sick

Senior Member
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113
Hi Everyone
After finding the below link I have been finding other documentations
That is very interesting.

First reported cases thought to be infectious.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK284897/

List of myalgic encephalomyelitis and chronic fatigue syndrome outbreaks
From all over the world

https://me-pedia.org/wiki/List_of_myalgic_encephalomyelitis_and_chronic_fatigue_syndrome_outbreaks

NIH study offers new clues into the causes of post-infectious ME/CFS​

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/new...rmalities-linked-debilitating-chronic-disease
 

southwestforests

Senior Member
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1,484
Location
Missouri
Cfs and me may be infectious
That is something which Dad and I have wondered about and sometimes talked about.
He developed the disease in early 1980s while I was in high school and college.
So I was definitely exposed to someone who had this.
And there is a theory, held by a few US and Saudi doctors, that he may have developed it after being assigned to the Saudi Navy Expansion Program & exposed to something endemic there that us white westerners do not have immunity to.

But then it didn't become obvious in me until a couple decades later.
But then the woman I married in 2005 had been diagnosed with fibromyalgia.
And I had lived across the hall from her and her kids for most of the preceding 9 years.

So, was it the 'double exposure' which doomed me to have this???????????????
Or is there something genetic involved too???????
🤔
 

I am sick

Senior Member
Messages
113
That is something which Dad and I have wondered about and sometimes talked about.
He developed the disease in early 1980s while I was in high school and college.
So I was definitely exposed to someone who had this.
And there is a theory, held by a few US and Saudi doctors, that he may have developed it after being assigned to the Saudi Navy Expansion Program & exposed to something endemic there that us white westerners do not have immunity to.

But then it didn't become obvious in me until a couple decades later.
But then the woman I married in 2005 had been diagnosed with fibromyalgia.
And I had lived across the hall from her and her kids for most of the preceding 9 years.

So, was it the 'double exposure' which doomed me to have this???????????????
Or is there something genetic involved too???????
🤔
Hi
I have Cfs/Me , or that is what I think I have that is pretty severe!
My daughter is in her mid 30's and she is developing some of my first symptons.
She is sleeping all the time and becoming fatigued , she was just prescribbed a Cpap machine.
In some of my other post I have posted my history and symptons and test results.
I developed what ever I have in 2021 to mid 2022.

So is it Genetics ? Or a disease I gave her through Contact?

So many people on this site share a lot of identical symptons , and we have all tried similar approaches and nothing has cured us.
Somethings have helped a little though.
It looks like it does not care what race, creed or color you are or age.
 

I am sick

Senior Member
Messages
113
Hi
I have Cfs/Me , or that is what I think I have that is pretty severe!
My daughter is in her mid 30's and she is developing some of my first symptons.
She is sleeping all the time and becoming fatigued , she was just prescribbed a Cpap machine.
In some of my other post I have posted my history and symptons and test results.
I developed what ever I have in 2021 to mid 2022.

So is it Genetics ? Or a disease I gave her through Contact?

So many people on this site share a lot of identical symptons , and we have all tried similar approaches and nothing has cured us.
Somethings have helped a little though.
It looks like it does not care what race, creed or color you are or age.
I have said a statement that may not be true .
Their may be some groups that dont have Cfs/me it is hard to research on the internet.
Here is an interesting artical I came across.
The last paragraph and the bottom of the page is intriguing .

Eskimos do not suffer from diabetes or cancer, rarely from hardening of the arteries. Yet they subsist almost entirely on meat. The possible relationship between such absence of disease and the peculiar diet of Eskimos led Professor Israel Mordecai Rabinowitch of McGill University Faculty of Medicine to join the Canadian Government’s Eastern Arctic Patrol on a nine-week cruise last summer among the Hudson’s Bay Co. fur trading posts which fringe Hudson Bay and the great islands to the north. Having systematized his clinical, bacteriological, chemical and sociological findings among the Eskimos, Dr. Rabinowitch published them last week in the Canadian Medical Association Journal.

When food is abundant, “a healthy Eskimo living under primitive conditions will eat 5 to 10 pounds of meat a day.” Trappers rely on caribou and dried buffalo meat. Hunters eat seal, walrus and whale meat. The Eskimo “has some carbohydrates for approximately two months in the year, in the form of blueberries. He also relishes the stomach contents of the caribou which, throughout the year, contain carbohydrates. . . . The stomach contents are often eaten with seal oil—a salad! When an Eskimo catches a walrus he immediately opens the stomach and eats all of the clams. . . . The Eskimos eat the livers of practically all animals, except that of the white bear. . . . Only when in need does he consume very large quantities of fat. Blubber is not regarded as a delicacy.”

That diet supplies all the proteins, fats and carbohydrates which the Eskimos need to thrive on. Whenever they adopt white men’s flour, they develop alkalosis. Seal meat is the Arctic purgative.

Eskimos “can tolerate pain, extreme cold, and fatigue.” When the Montreal doctor stopped at Pond Inlet on Baffin Island, he encountered a native who, impatient at the delay of healing a frozen foot, had shortly before amputated the gangrenous portion himself. The wound was healing and the man, “with the aid of a cane, assisted at the unloading of the cargo.”

As the result of assisting at the birth of an Eskimo baby, Dr. Rabinowitch suggests that “our obstetricians have something to learn from the Eskimo about the mechanics of labor. The child is born with the mother in a squatting position. She is supported in this position by three women. . . . Birth apparently is not a very painful matter judging from the expression of this woman as I watched her for some time. . . . She was in labor for about twelve hours only. Except for the administration of some castor oil and i c.c. of pituitrin, my activities, as obstetrician, consisted, as the word implies, in standing-by. The child was born ten minutes after the pituitrin was given, and ten minutes later, all in the tent—eleven women, the patient, and the writer—enjoyed cigarets.”

Meat-eating Eskimos suffer from nosebleed because their blood is over-rich in red cells. Dr. Rabinowitch thinks the overproduction of red cells is due to the abundance of copper in seafood. Eskimos do not suffer from diabetes, he believes, because long ago those who might have been susceptible died before they could breed susceptible children. He found only one case of what might have been cancer, several cases of arteriosclerosis among Eskimos living at the white settlements. No such cases were located among the most northerly, isolated Eskimos.


In general, the farther from white men the Eskimos live the healthier they remain. In spite of having “no sense whatever of sanitation,” they are “remarkably free from infection.” Their population is increasing and, since the Eskimo is indispensable to the fur industry, the Hudson’s Bay Co. takes good care to keep him alive and healthy in Nature’s own way.
 

Rufous McKinney

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14,694
Fascinating. I"ve read several books about early Arctic exploration. One of the most fascinating was Kabloona. Thats their word for the rest of us outsiders.

because long ago those who might have been susceptible died before they could breed susceptible children
This is probably a key point.

- What would be interesting is I wonder if anyone has simply looked at the Epstein Barr virus relative to these populations?
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
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14,694
Well, I found this article that EBV is widespread in the aRctic and that there are cancers in Greenland which may. be caused by EBV

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/609...dren in Greenland were,in the etiology of NPC.

Int J Cancer

. 1984 Nov 15;34(5):619-23.
doi: 10.1002/ijc.2910340506.

Early primary infection and high Epstein-Barr virus antibody titers in Greenland Eskimos at high risk for nasopharyngeal carcinoma​

 

I am sick

Senior Member
Messages
113
Fascinating. I"ve read several books about early Arctic exploration. One of the most fascinating was Kabloona. Thats their word for the rest of us outsiders.


This is probably a key point.

- What would be interesting is I wonder if anyone has simply looked at the Epstein Barr virus relative to these populations?
Hi Rufous
You do provide some Pearls of Wisdom!
Where do we find old enviromental records, where do we find when or what processed foods came on the market?
We have so many questions and no answers.
Let us look at 1939 . If that was the first cases.
I think we could rule out modified foods and meats of all kind.
Sugar has been around a long time but in those days sugar cane was processed with old cane mills powered by a Donkey, when I was young my Uncle had his own cane mill.

What medicines or vaccines were started pre Cfs/me? Or other diseases?

So we can assume in 1939 that most of the food was natural along with the meats. Farm raised all natural.

Example
Back in my early days , let's say 30 years ago I worked for a well known company that produced chicken feed
I personally mixed the steroids and antibiotics and other wild sounding stuff that was mixed with other ingredients When the person who had done it for years was on vacation.
Basically a chick right from the egg was fryer size in 4 to 6 weeks.
I had monitored records from chicken houses that help up to 50k chickens each at one time.
I know what they were fed, I quit eating chickens for years and I very seldom eat chicken now.

1-So it could have been new medicines?
2-It could be a new disease?
3-Or something effecting or DNA
But it is not affecting all of the population.

I think it could be 1,2,3 or a combination.

Can you name some test , that may be worth having done?

I will do my best to find somewhere and have them done on me.

Thanks
 

cfs since 1998

Senior Member
Messages
905
Well, I found this article that EBV is widespread in the aRctic and that there are cancers in Greenland which may. be caused by EBV

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6094363/#:~:text=Eskimo children in Greenland were,in the etiology of NPC.

Int J Cancer

. 1984 Nov 15;34(5):619-23.
doi: 10.1002/ijc.2910340506.

Early primary infection and high Epstein-Barr virus antibody titers in Greenland Eskimos at high risk for nasopharyngeal carcinoma​

Nasopharyngeal carcinoma is one of the cancers most highly associated with EBV, along with endemic Burkitt's lymphoma (which is where it was discovered) and certain other lymphoma subtypes.
 

I am sick

Senior Member
Messages
113
Nasopharyngeal carcinoma is one of the cancers most highly associated with EBV, along with endemic Burkitt's lymphoma (which is where it was discovered) and certain other lymphoma subtypes.
Hi
In the Eskimo discussion I pasted
This group does not appear to have any form of cancer other than the one below

He found only one case of what might have been cancer, several cases of arteriosclerosis among Eskimos living at the white settlements. No such cases were located among the most northerly, isolated Eskimos.

And they must of had allergies or something from non native flour.

That diet supplies all the proteins, fats and carbohydrates which the Eskimos need to thrive on. Whenever they adopt white men’s flour, they develop alkalosis.

It appears that isolated groups and tribes are very healthy when left alone, and outsiders are not giving them diseases.
The hunters and gatherers being isolated with low enviromentals stresses Do not have all the diseases we have.

It could also be related to, they dont have the 9 to 5 work habit , traffic and all the aggravation and stress!
 

BrightCandle

Senior Member
Messages
1,245
I tend to think ME/CFS shows more signs of being infection spread rather than genetics driven because so few with shared genetics suffer from it but households have a small notable tendency for multiple sufferers which aren't necessarily related. Most people report it occurring right after infection so it makes sense its related to outbreaks.
 

Viala

Senior Member
Messages
877
It can't be infectious and not infectious at the same time, unless there are different triggers.

These outbreaks can share one triggering factor that caused people who spend a lot of time in the same building or area to get sick. Not necessarily meaning it is infectious. Trigger can be, ME isn't. Outbreaks or not, it might as well been an experiment since locations are perfect, it wouldn't be the first time. So now we do not have outbreaks, unless someone wants to count LC in.
 

I am sick

Senior Member
Messages
113
just speculation on my part but since me-cfs is a reaction to a disease it can't be infectious but the viral disease causing it can
Hi
I am looking at the first two links I posted, one says it is infectious and it has outbreaks , outbreaks to me says it is infectous.

And I agree with you it could have been a viral outbreak that caused it.
And they do have several spectulations of diseases.
So what was the disease?

(Quote)
There have been dozens of documented outbreaks of myalgic encephalomyelitis and chronic fatigue syndrome since the 1930s. The true number of clusters and outbreaks is likely vastly higher.

I have just been searching for cfs/me
Before covid , basically when were the first detectable cases to rule out our present enviromental over loading and possibly geneticly modified foods and meats.

In the second link thier are lists of cfs/me and other outbreaks from the 1930's to the 2000's

It is very hard to find past research using the internet.

A few people are posting thier parents developed cfs/me and then they aquired it. Some developed it years latter also.

On this thread as well as some of my other threads.

My own daughter is starting to show early symptons exactly like mine started.
 

I am sick

Senior Member
Messages
113
Yes, I had ME/CFS, my partner didn't.
Quite a few people has had family members have it a few years to dozens of years apart and some dont.
So it appears to me some have an immunity of some kind .
If not during the outbreaks everyone in the world would have it.
Look at the first two links I posted.
They are very interesting.
 

I am sick

Senior Member
Messages
113
It can't be infectious and not infectious at the same time, unless there are different triggers.

These outbreaks can share one triggering factor that caused people who spend a lot of time in the same building or area to get sick. Not necessarily meaning it is infectious. Trigger can be, ME isn't. Outbreaks or not, it might as well been an experiment since locations are perfect, it wouldn't be the first time. So now we do not have outbreaks, unless someone wants to count LC in.
Hi
I agree and we really dont know .
But reading the first two links I posted
They say it is infectious and groups do have outbreaks, but if it was infectious
Why didnt it spread ? Or the trigger spread world wide at the same time?
Why does it skip the larger population?


In the second link I posted thier are outbreaks from the 1930's to the 2000's of different diseases but most of them refer to cfs/me.
And after the 2000's they bring up the sars and covids.
That is why I posted the third link.

Is the cfs/me term just over used in the medical field just as a general term for an unknown sickness?
 
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