CAUTION: Vitamin B12 Sublinguals — The Citric Acid Additive Can Erode Tooth Enamel

[garyfritz]

And in my experience at least, the oil works much much better than sublinguals, particularly for large doses. I would definitely use the oil rather than putting possibly dangerous stuff into my eye!

 

[Wolfcub]

I tried pure b12 from https://www.sunday.de/ it contains destilled water, alchole and vitamin 12. I tried the eye route it hurts like hell for a few seconds , not sure if it works or not but i've tried to place the dropplets in the eye every possible way (corner of eye, in the iris, on the pupil, lifting bottom eyelid down and pour in there) and maybe i felt something initially but now nothing. Does b12 need other vitamins to work properly ? perhaps because im deficient in other b vitamins its not working as it should. Or im not leaving the b12 on my eye long enough? When it hits my eye I have no choice but to close my eye so it doesnt hurt and somehow it stops it but not sure if that makes the b12 spill out or get moved deeper in the eye. Either way im prepared to lose one eye doing this lol.

@fishboy9320 please re-think about putting anything containing alcohol into your eye. It really isn't worth it. A badly damaged eye will just add to your woes. Alcohol does not go well applied to sensitive mucus membranes.

 

[fishboy9320]

wow sorry about my previous stupid posts I feel embarrassed by them now. But do all the B vitamins need each other to work effectively? Like how useful is b12 if you are deficient in folate? And vice versa. Are there any infos on this?

 

[fishboy9320]

Human faeces contain appreciable quantities of vitamin B12 or vitamin B12-like material presumably produced by bacteria in the colon

 

[splithooves]

browsing through the thread -- i am unable to figure it out -- is there a determined best practice for sublingual b12 that doesn't destroy enamel?

 

[Hip]

is there a determined best practice for sublingual b12 that doesn't destroy enamel?

Yes, if you use a sublingual B12 product which does not contain citric acid as a preservative, which is the chemical that erodes enamel, that should save your teeth.

Alternatively, you can consider using Dr Greg Russell-Jones's transdermal B12 oils, which provide a systemic dose equivalent to a B12 injection. These oils that you place on the skin are a much more reliable way of getting good amounts of B12 into the body than sublingual tablets.

 

[splithooves]

thank you for this! just to be clear then, are there products which are trusted?

if not, would sublingual tabs like for instance Douglas Labs, which contain xylitol, mannitol, natural flavors and ascorbyl palmitate save my teeth?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B..._title_dp_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2EJCTH67GJMT3

 

[Hip]

thank you for this! just to be clear then, are there products which are trusted?

I have not looked at what products are available in recent years. After discovering the B12 oils, which usefully reduce my brain fog, I have not gone back to sublinguals.

I am not sure what "natural flavors" in the link you posted means, and whether that could contain citric acid.

If you do damage your teeth with B12, which you will notice because the teeth will become sensitive at the gum line, you can repair them if you stop the B12. Enamel is repaired by the calcium etc in the saliva.

In my case, when I damaged my teeth and my gum line became very sensitive due to the thinned enamel, I started gargling and brushing my teeth twice a day with a high fluoride mouthwash, as my teeth were back to normal within 2 weeks. Fluoride helps to rebuild enamel.

 

[splithooves]

thanks for all this useful info, it would have been a nightmare to start an intensive course of these and then realize i need to replace my teeth. i will definitely buy some oils but looks like i won't be able to get them till february. about how long did it take till you noticed tooth damage?

 

[garyfritz]

I use Country Life Methyl 5000mcg. Be sure to get the 5000mcg -- the different sizes/etc have different ingredients. For example the 3000mcg contains ascorbic acid and fructose -- not good for teeth. The 5000mcg contains methylcobalamin (B12), Xylitol, cellulose, stearic acid, dextrin, natural cherry flavor, silica. The sweetener (Xylitol) is actually beneficial to tooth enamel.

5000mcg is a big dose. I don't need that much. It's easy to break the tablet into 1/4s for a 1250mcg dose.

https://www.countrylifevitamins.com/product/methyl-b-12-lozenges-5000-mcg/

 

[Freddd]

I did an n=1000 trial of interviewing for an hour on symptoms, common language and a 1000 mcg MeCbl of that first brand I found that was so good. I did several thousand sublingual comparisons of injections as to how much was in urine in an hour or 2. While I could do that I found that the sublingual could absorb 10-50 mcg per minute, generally between 45-120 minutes was as little as 10% and as much as 33% from 5 mg sublingual. 75% of the 50 percent of the n=1000 group had neurological effects in 10 to 20 minutes under the tongue. The oral tablet swallowed is combined with IF and absorbed in the intestines absorbs about 10 mcg per day and another 10 mcg absorbed all the way out. I found trans-nasal spray totaled about 2-4% between in the nose and the rest of the way out via stomach and such, very similar to just swallowing it plus a little bit.

The quick appearance in the neurology from the sublingual and the large percentage appears to me to be heavily populated with Transcobalamin Receptor - Lithium. After 5 years of titrating lithium orotate or tartrate from 5 mg to 20 mg, a 7.5-10 mg subcutaneous injection went from the expected by research to be excreted at 20-50 minutes serum half life that now with once a week dosing the serum half life period varied to over 24 hours as the serum half life. That agrees with the results found with some people in the 50's trials and they had no idea why. the half life was so long for a few people. It has been a mystery for 70 years or so.

Reducing to one sublingual dose, like 5 mg or more, per week or possibly longer, certainly reduces tooth damage.. This is a work in process. Also surprising me my eGFR (kidney) went from 59% 6 years ago to >90% now and has done a lot of healing on my liver as well, the home of 50% of the body's B12.

 

[splithooves]

Reducing to one sublingual dose, like 5 mg or more, per week or possibly longer, certainly reduces tooth damage.. This is a work in process. Also surprising me my eGFR (kidney) went from 59% 6 years ago to >90% now and has done a lot of healing on my liver as well, the home of 50% of the body's B12.

Thanks Freddd! I'm having unusual health problems due to NAC and I suspect I'm going to need to try a heavier dosing regimen of B12 for a while. I have never taken B12 before + am very sensitive to all supplementation. I would love to hear your take on how I should start safely dosing.

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/nac-did-something-bad-to-me-please-help.86577/

For the purposes of this thread, I found a pretty good brand of sublingual, ingredients wise -- only lactose and acacia gum! If you can tolerate lactose, teeth should be fine.

https://www.amazon.com/Superior-Source-Vitamin-Methylcobalamin-Sublingual/dp/B003VR6Y18

 

[Freddd]

Thanks Freddd! I'm having unusual health problems due to NAC and I suspect I'm going to need to try a heavier dosing regimen of B12 for a while. I have never taken B12 before + am very sensitive to all supplementation. I would love to hear your take on how I should start safely dosing.

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/nac-did-something-bad-to-me-please-help.86577/

For the purposes of this thread, I found a pretty good brand of sublingual, ingredients wise -- only lactose and acacia gum! If you can tolerate lactose, teeth should be fine.

https://www.amazon.com/Superior-Source-Vitamin-Methylcobalamin-Sublingual/dp/B003VR6Y18

In my experience NAC can generate more glutathione which can cause "catastrophic" B12 deficiency. I would suggest discontinuing NAC and increasing MeCbl and AdoCbl for a week or so and sufficient methylfolate which for me went to 45mg/day for healing a lot of symptoms.

Start with sublingual B12 of 1 mg for 45+ minutes. Start on methylfolate 1 mg 3 times a day. That will relieve some symptoms and increase each dose by 25-50% each week improve some some things until they have all. I f you start getting more refeeding symptoms it will like be for potassium and likely to be after each increase as there are more things neeeded other symptoms will show up for l-carnitine. AA lot of additional information and lists of symptoms and nutrients will give you some ideas to re;lieve all the symptyoms you have gotten with NAC.

https://www.quora.com/Has-someone-u..._filter__=all&__nsrc__=1&__snid3__=1808215186

 

[splithooves]

Start with sublingual B12 of 1 mg for 45+ minutes. Start on methylfolate 1 mg 3 times a day. That will relieve some symptoms and increase each dose by 25-50% each week improve some some things until they have all.

Thank you! How much AdoCbl would you recommend if I'm doing 1mg MeCbl daily initially?

 

[Freddd]

Thank you! How much AdoCbl would you recommend if I'm doing 1mg MeCbl daily initially?

Different people have different needs of AdoCbl and I don't know why. One of my daughters had to use AdoCbl daily and I only need it once a week, the same as before I took lithium which changed my MeCbl needs a lot. When I and others got too much AdoCbl compared to MeCbl many of us got more irritable;. I found from 3 to 10 mg of AdoCbl once a week just fine and 50 mg once every month or two sub;lingual. That penetrates the brain better at the larger dose.

 

[motorhead]

@Freddd you did a lot of testing with big samples, have you ever run into someone who was not responsive at all no matter the b12 amount? I mean I'm either a unique case or I don't know.
Hope you can give me your feedback on this;
following transdermal oils creator's suggestion: I first supplemented with Iodine, Selenium and Molybdenum transdermals, then I took the Me/Ado oil combo which is supposed to have a 80% absorption, I'm sure you are familiar with them but this is a reminder of the amount there is each squirt.
These squirts were taken with 5mg to 20mg lithium orotate (swanson), 15 to 45mg L-methylfolate, 855mg LCF (doctor's best), 44mg zinc. Keep in mind the suggested amount is one squirt per day, I upped it to 4 or 5.
I'm also supplementing with iron.

With lack of response I tried Country Life Methyl 5mg, combined with life extension's Two per day which cointains vit A, C, D3, E among other things. I just took 3 of those County Life lozenges, together with the other stuff of course (lit, mthf, lcf, zinc), in the last 12 hours, like taking water. I kept the lozenges between lips and gums (at least 1 hour).

What's shocking here is not a low response but total lack of it, I wouldn't be able to tell I have taken anything at all if someone made me swallow this stuff while unconscious, users in the dermaoils thread are flummoxed.

Up until today I was putting the blame on the oils somehow expiring but the same is happening with the lozenges. I'm quite sure I've mercury toxicity and I'll start taking ALA to chelate soon, still I don't get how basically everyone has some form of reaction to b12 while I don't, and I'm also vegan!

I check a lot of symptoms you list on quora and in your threads, just not gonna name them all now.
I'm extremely pale since post-childhood, which is also the time I got my amalgam fillings, and made fun for it.
MCV on the high end: 93,9 range 80-94.
I'll be getting the result of the MMA test in a couple of hours and I'm going to update the post with it, was just glad to see you posting in here again and I took the time to write this all on the fly, I'm really left in the dark.

Thanks for your time, hope you are improving with your recent health problem.

 

[Alvin2]

In the first post you mentioned ACP-recaldent (which i am aware of) and dicalcium phosphate which i was not aware of till now despite having read through many remineralization articles.

By any chance do you remember how you found out about it?

 

[Freddd]

@Freddd you did a lot of testing with big samples, have you ever run into someone who was not responsive at all no matter the b12 amount? I mean I'm either a unique case or I don't know.
Hope you can give me your feedback on this;
following transdermal oils creator's suggestion: I first supplemented with Iodine, Selenium and Molybdenum transdermals, then I took the Me/Ado oil combo which is supposed to have a 80% absorption, I'm sure you are familiar with them but this is a reminder of the amount there is each squirt.
These squirts were taken with 5mg to 20mg lithium orotate (swanson), 15 to 45mg L-methylfolate, 855mg LCF (doctor's best), 44mg zinc. Keep in mind the suggested amount is one squirt per day, I upped it to 4 or 5.
I'm also supplementing with iron.

With lack of response I tried Country Life Methyl 5mg, combined with life extension's Two per day which cointains vit A, C, D3, E among other things. I just took 3 of those County Life lozenges, together with the other stuff of course (lit, mthf, lcf, zinc), in the last 12 hours, like taking water. I kept the lozenges between lips and gums (at least 1 hour).

What's shocking here is not a low response but total lack of it, I wouldn't be able to tell I have taken anything at all if someone made me swallow this stuff while unconscious, users in the dermaoils thread are flummoxed.

Up until today I was putting the blame on the oils somehow expiring but the same is happening with the lozenges. I'm quite sure I've mercury toxicity and I'll start taking ALA to chelate soon, still I don't get how basically everyone has some form of reaction to b12 while I don't, and I'm also vegan!

I check a lot of symptoms you list on quora and in your threads, just not gonna name them all now.
I'm extremely pale since post-childhood, which is also the time I got my amalgam fillings, and made fun for it.
MCV on the high end: 93,9 range 80-94.
I'll be getting the result of the MMA test in a couple of hours and I'm going to update the post with it, was just glad to see you posting in here again and I took the time to write this all on the fly, I'm really left in the dark.

Thanks for your time, hope you are improving with your recent health problem.

Things have to be done right and in the right order.

Basically take all microminerals and eletrolytes, A, D, E, C, Jarrow B-right.

THEN take a look of the symptoms come pouring out or maybe only 1 or 2 or 3 or no startup at all.\You will usually know in hours it is effective, only the nutrient that breaks the c

Then getting ONLY MeCbl in the tablet or capsule. put under tongue for 45-120 minutes or more.(75% startup, 25% don't) If no startup, do the same thing with AdoCbl (Dibencozide) and that could add up to 80% startup;. Then add Metafolin starting with a dose like 1mg to 5 mg 3 times a day. That is important. If that starts up that will cause potassium deficiency next and it may take a titration up to 3x15 mg Metafolin or 2 x 10mg Quatrefolic, one of the will like work better. My experience that it can alternate between which ones works for a person.

Then add, one at a time one a day added, , Biotin, Sam-e TMG,ribose. Finally if still not started up in cell making and healing, and improving groups of symptoms, add MORE vit D. That is necessary for about 5% more. In all about 95% have startup. Then you will probably have a circular titration of methylfolate and potassium. Be aware of places not the USA may also need phosphate and some people with different than "normal" American diet. Both or either (phosphate and potassium) deficiencies can be fatal.

 

[motorhead]

43,3 is the result of the MMA test, if I'm reading it right it's fine as long as inferior to to 47mcg/l. So even in this test I'm within range.

So I was close to this guide up till the MeCbl step; took minerals supplements, b-complex (tho not Jarrow) and then MeCbl alone (in my 2nd attempt, without dermaoils), unless you mean something different by microminerals.
'only nutrient that breaks the c', the circle? You lost me here.
The folate I took is Metafolin, but at 15mg each pill (x3 times a day). On youtube there's dozens of videos saying most of the people would have nasty side effects at doses in the 50mg ballpark, zero on me.
So I'd need to buy all supplements again, individually this time.

I feel like the character in a famous italian movie after consulting with the upteempth specialist when he says 'that time I didn't even bother buying the prescribed drugs.'

Maybe @Pyrrhus can weigh in on my case?

I still don't get how people with CFS that fast over 40 days end up in total or partial remission, when doing basically the opposite of all these steps.

 

[Freddd]

43,3 is the result of the MMA test, if I'm reading it right it's fine as long as inferior to to 47mcg/l. So even in this test I'm within range.
View attachment 46495
Seems to me I was very close to this guide up until a certain point, took minerals supplements and then MeCbl alone (in my 2nd attempt, without dermaoils), unless you mean something different by microminerals.
'only nutrient that breaks the c', the circle? You lost me here.
The folate I took is Metafolin, but at 15mg each pill (x3 times a day). On youtube there's dozens of videos saying most of the people would have nasty side effects at doses in the 50mg ballpark, zero on me.
So I'd need to buy all supplements again, individually this time.

I feel like the character in a famous italian movie after consulting with the upteempth specialist when he says 'that time I didn't even bother buying the prescribed drugs.'

Maybe @Pyrrhus can weigh in on my case?

I still don't get how people with CFS that fast over 40 days end up in total or partial remission, when doing basically the opposite of all these steps.

They are not eating, they shut down cell making and so therefore all the failed cells don't happen and don't cause refeeding syndrome symptoms.

It took me all the different copper supplements to find one that didin't bother my stomach . Then it took 5 yeas of Lithium supplementation to regain homeostasis and was able to bring copper up to middle range.

The last Transcobalamin Receptor - Li are in the mouth, maybe under tongue, any way they work. In a N=1000 study I did , half the people had the symptoms galore and 75% of those responded with a previously tested 5 star MeCbl., 1 mg. It takes the deadlock quartet; MeCbl, AdoCbl, l-methylfolate and L-carnitine (usually fumarate to start with) plus any extra boosters as described takes the MeCbl and AdoCbl to make the TCR-Li becasue there isn't a bunch of TCR-Li turning out cob[ii] (catelytic) into the blood and hitting the brain typically within 10 minutes and none past 1 hour for starting.

The catch is one needs to stop all the wrong stuff and it works best if you KNOW you have a 5 star MeCbl that blows your socks off. Then you can tell which type of folate you have to use, and then you can find the right carnitine and find what one works best. You need to validate them one at a time in order against the background of the B-complex and everything else needed except the deadlock quartet, lithium 5-20 mg/day of lithium orotate . You have to find the things of the forms that work in YOUR body.