Carnivore diet reduces bloating

[Violeta]

I have read stuff that indicates that carnivore can make someone run low on Vitamin C, which might be why you get a sore throat. I can try to put the reasoning together for you if you are interested.

 

[GreenEdge]

You might be right, I haven't taken a vitamin C supplement for about a month. Thanks.

Vitamin C would reduce inflammation and help the gut to heal.

 

[Viala]

I've been on keto diet for some time and it also strongly improved my digestion, later some benefits started to go away, although digestion was still great. But I don't think that any restrictive diet like this is healthy for a long time. It can create deficiencies of magnesium, calcium, potassium, other minerals and vitamins.

It took a while to go back to a high carb diet for the microbiome to readjust again and I feel better now than on keto. For bloating it is a good idea to check allergen foods first. I would slowly introduce rice back, than other foods one by one and see how the body is reacting. It can take a while if someone was in ketosis long time, it took me about 6 months to fully readjust to carbs.

 

[Alvin2]

The baseline of Carnivore is just beef and salt

This will cause major nutrient deficiencies.

After a year on carnivore, I began to have nosebleeds, sensitive gums and sinuses, along with dizziness, etc.

Sounds like you have scurvy.

 

[Crux]

Sounds like you have scurvy.

nope, read about vitamin k deficiency, folate, and calcium

 

[GreenEdge]

I've been on keto diet for some time and it also strongly improved my digestion, later some benefits started to go away,

Based on my experience with a keto pescatarian diet from 2018-2021: when keto starts to fail it's because you're no longer in ketosis. I found it hard to restrict carbs enough to stay in ketosis and I found hunger prevents you from getting back into ketosis. The trick I learned to get back into ketosis, was to make the next 2 meals zero carb (eg. fish). I used a cheap alcohol breath tester to check - the sensor in the cheap ones also responds to acetone (mistaking it for alcohol) so you get reading, any non-zero value means your ketogenic (if you've not consumed alcohol).

This will cause major nutrient deficiencies.

I disagree. Beef is concentrated nutrients (vitamins and minerals) from an animal on a plant based diet.

Take for example calcium - there is no way we could acquire the recommended RDI from any source other than milk. Milk is perfectly designed for young animal to grow into an adult. It even stimulates hunger to accelerate this process. Why do many humans (unlike any other animal) never ween themselves off milk? When our bones have finished growing, why do we need calcium? - the RDI is wrong for adults. Even if we break a bone the body can recycle calcium and repair the bone break.

And all the nutrients in meat are in the active form our bodies require. Consider the fat soluble vitamins:

• Vitamin A as retinol, retinal, retinoic acid - not beta-carotene from plants that needs to be converted.
• Vitamin D3 - not D2.
• Vitamin E as α-tocopherol - not γ-tocopherol and tocotrienols that predominate vegetable seed oils.
• Vitamin K2 - not K1.
• Omega 3 DHA and EPA - not ALA.

How do you obtain these nutrients in sufficient amounts on a low fat plant based diet?

The US Dietary Guidelines are 80-85% based on Epidemiology (not science) and the rest is based on cherry picked scientific trials that align with their vegetarian ideology. The 20 dietary guidelines advisory committee members are predominantly vegetarians. Google each name and see for yourself.

Based on ideology and dogma they are trying to steer us away from our natural ancestral animal based diet and as a consequence destroying nature and our health. Only animals can restore our top soil and prevent climate change by returning carbon to the soil which improves drainage and water holding capacity, thereby reducing runoff and down stream flooding.

Sorry for going off topic at the end.

 

[Viala]

Based on my experience with a keto pescatarian diet from 2018-2021: when keto starts to fail it's because you're no longer in ketosis. I found it hard to restrict carbs enough to stay in ketosis and I found hunger prevents you from getting back into ketosis. The trick I learned to get back into ketosis, was to make the next 2 meals zero carb (eg. fish). I used a cheap alcohol breath tester to check - the sensor in the cheap ones also responds to acetone (mistaking it for alcohol) so you get reading, any non-zero value means your ketogenic (if you've not consumed alcohol).

I wish keto diet worked for me, it was so easy, super tasty and not a lot of cooking was needed! I never tried total zero carbs, seems too extreme for me. I've been in ketosis most of the time though, the diet just stopped working for me. Last year I tried going back to keto to test how I will react, but it made me feel very fatigued and that feeling didn't go away. I am now a happy carb eater, with a low to moderate amount of fat. Well, 'happy'.

 

[Alvin2]

Based on my experience with a keto pescatarian diet from 2018-2021: when keto starts to fail it's because you're no longer in ketosis. I found it hard to restrict carbs enough to stay in ketosis and I found hunger prevents you from getting back into ketosis. The trick I learned to get back into ketosis, was to make the next 2 meals zero carb (eg. fish). I used a cheap alcohol breath tester to check - the sensor in the cheap ones also responds to acetone (mistaking it for alcohol) so you get reading, any non-zero value means your ketogenic (if you've not consumed alcohol).


I disagree. Beef is concentrated nutrients (vitamins and minerals) from an animal on a plant based diet.

Take for example calcium - there is no way we could acquire the recommended RDI from any source other than milk. Milk is perfectly designed for young animal to grow into an adult. It even stimulates hunger to accelerate this process. Why do many humans (unlike any other animal) never ween themselves off milk? When our bones have finished growing, why do we need calcium? - the RDI is wrong for adults. Even if we break a bone the body can recycle calcium and repair the bone break.

And all the nutrients in meat are in the active form our bodies require. Consider the fat soluble vitamins:

• Vitamin A as retinol, retinal, retinoic acid - not beta-carotene from plants that needs to be converted.
• Vitamin D3 - not D2.
• Vitamin E as α-tocopherol - not γ-tocopherol and tocotrienols that predominate vegetable seed oils.
• Vitamin K2 - not K1.
• Omega 3 DHA and EPA - not ALA.

How do you obtain these nutrients in sufficient amounts on a low fat plant based diet?

The US Dietary Guidelines are 80-85% based on Epidemiology (not science) and the rest is based on cherry picked scientific trials that align with their vegetarian ideology. The 20 dietary guidelines advisory committee members are predominantly vegetarians. Google each name and see for yourself.

Based on ideology and dogma they are trying to steer us away from our natural ancestral animal based diet and as a consequence destroying nature and our health. Only animals can restore our top soil and prevent climate change by returning carbon to the soil which improves drainage and water holding capacity, thereby reducing runoff and down stream flooding.

Sorry for going off topic at the end.

This is not how it works, i don't advocate for a vegan diet because it often has nutrient deficiencies, just like only eating beef has nutrient deficiencies.
We need a diet with vegetables, protein and more.
That said i know some ME patients have found success with a keto diet because it might be bypassing whatever part of this disease process screws with our energy production. But that is a special case and i would still suggest more than just beef.

 

[GreenEdge]

The baseline of Carnivore is actually meat from ruminant animals and salt. For most 'Lion' dieters that's beef and lamb, but can include all domesticated and wild bovines, goats, giraffes, deer, gazelles, and antelopes.

Some have trouble with beef and do better on only lamb, likely because beef is aged for ~3 weeks to improve flavor before being sold. Fresh beef is almost impossible to get. Yeah, reintroducing eggs, fish and other meats is advisable as they have complimentary nutrient profiles.

Allergy to raw egg white is fairly common but removing or cooking the egg white until done is usually enough to prevent an upset stomach. Of course, if you get a more severe allergic reaction you'll need to avoid them entirely. Eggs would be the cheapest and best source of complete protein, vitamins and minerals.

Pork, lamb and high fat mince are also inexpensive options. Dairy is unsuitable for adults and many find cheese in particular triggers food cravings. Contrary to popular belief—meat, including red meat, is the safest, most nutritious, digestible, healthy food for the human body.

 

[Alvin2]

Based on ideology and dogma they are trying to steer us away from our natural ancestral animal based diet

Incorrect
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians/

 

[GreenEdge]

Incorrect
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians/

Since the origin of our species approximately 300,000 years ago, modern humans have spread throughout the whole world. The period approximately 115,000 to 11,700 years ago, colloquially called the “Ice Age,” included incredible climate instability. Any plant based food sources during this time would have been left as bait for attracting large animals. During the Ice Age the average weight of mammals went from 300kg down to 10kg as mega fauna were hunted to extinction around the globe. Coinciding with this period our brain size grew exponentially (out of necessity) as hunted animals got smaller and more difficult to catch. Evolution does not support a large brain expending 25% of our energy for no reason. Since the advent of agriculture 12,000 years ago our brain size has decreased from 1,500 cubic centimeters to 1,350 cc.

This is a carnivore diet thread. A place where I do my best to help other carnivores.

Let's agree to disagree.

 

[Alvin2]

Since the origin of our species approximately 300,000 years ago, modern humans have spread throughout the whole world. The period approximately 115,000 to 11,700 years ago, colloquially called the “Ice Age,” included incredible climate instability. Any plant based food sources during this time would have been left as bait for attracting large animals. During the Ice Age the average weight of mammals went from 300kg down to 10kg as mega fauna were hunted to extinction around the globe. Coinciding with this period our brain size grew exponentially (out of necessity) as hunted animals got smaller and more difficult to catch. Evolution does not support a large brain expending 25% of our energy for no reason. Since the advent of agriculture 12,000 years ago our brain size has decreased from 1,500 cubic centimeters to 1,350 cc.

Plants use less energy than meat. It takes 2-10x as much solar energy to grow meat as it does plants.
That said we can allow farmed animals to graze on grass which conveniently allows us to not need to use a lawnmower on it and grass and weeds grow themselves without most human intervention.

This is a carnivore diet thread. A place where I do my best to help other carnivores.

Thats great, but we thrive on factual information even when its complicated.
I will give you an example.
Lets say keto helps some ME patients becasue it bypasses glucose metabolism. Thats great but a beef only diet omits vital nutirents.
But one can get those nutrients elsewhere, other keto sources, supplements and so forth.
Thus we can have our cake and eat it to, by being thorough.

Let's agree to disagree.

Sounds good.

 

[Viala]

Take for example calcium - there is no way we could acquire the recommended RDI from any source other than milk. Milk is perfectly designed for young animal to grow into an adult. It even stimulates hunger to accelerate this process. Why do many humans (unlike any other animal) never ween themselves off milk? When our bones have finished growing, why do we need calcium? - the RDI is wrong for adults. Even if we break a bone the body can recycle calcium and repair the bone break.

This is a good point. I monitor my diet very carefuly and it is quite difficult to acquire the recommended RDI for calcium without diary, especially for women. Milk is high in calcium but also in phosphorus, drinking a lot of milk is not that healthy. The thing that changed in the last century is that the food we eat nowadays is much less nutritious than it was before. One study says that one hundred years ago we had up to three times more calcium, magnesium and iron in food. That explains why we don't get enough calcium in our diet, calcium that was in plants is simply no longer there, so we need to rely more on milk. I think that RDI for calcium is good though, when take into consideration all the minerals that we need.

 

[GreenEdge]

I know it's controversial but I'm convinced Dairy does not belong in the human diet beyond weening.

If it were true we needed milk beyond weening then we would be the only animal for whom that was true. And not just milk, but milk of a different species. It's ludicrous. So what milk is, is a species specific growth formula perfectly designed to turn a baby mammal into a larger mammal and then that mammal is supposed to graduate onto solid food. It's supposed to go and hunt and gather for itself, whatever that mammal is. So it doesn't make any sense that we would require milk beyond weening as no other animal requires milk beyond weening. We shouldn't be in growth mode for our entire lives and it's a powerful growth formula at that - it turns on the growth system in the mammal that's consuming it.

Therefore, I believe adults need very little calcium.

If you look at how the RDI is calculated for calcium, you will see why it is flawed. They measure what's excreted and think that needs to be matched or exceeded (Calcium out <= Calcium in). They are blaming calcium loss for osteoporosis and then trying to prevent it.

Bone is made mostly of collagen, bone is living, growing tissue. Collagen is a protein that provides a soft framework, and calcium phosphate is a mineral that adds strength and hardens the framework.

Collagen is also what gives skin it's elasticity. Look at the skin of an elder, its dry and thin and tears easily. On a carnivore diet your skin improves because meat contains collagen. Therefore, I believe the cause of osteoporosis is a deficiency in collagen and simply consuming meat or a collagen peptide supplement will prevent it and possibly reverse it.

I believe excess calcium is a contributing factor in cardiovascular disease; since a coronary calcium test is the best predictor of heart disease risk. The body is trying to excrete excess calcium and we're trying to override it by consuming more. Crazy.

 

[GreenEdge]

 

[Viala]

I think a PTH lab test would explain a lot here. Any carnivore tested it? I'm curious.

 

[GreenEdge]

This last bout of diarrhea I had this week, continued for days - even after complete emptying. Every time I drank water, it went straight through me. For days, I could only wet my lips. I pretty much survived without water.

Edit: My advice (in hindsight): Drink more to speed up the process.

I thought I was becoming dangerously dehydrated (maybe I was), so I drank as much as I could which wasn't much. - I estimate a total of 1 glass of water per day.

I think my microbiome was almost completely eliminated by bowel cleanse - immune system repairing a leaky gut. I also noticed my sense of smell became very sensitive from the 2nd day.

Hadza people (living traditionally in Tanzanian); the men only eat meat, blood and water. They are capable of surviving 4 days in desert conditions without a drop of water. It's thought to be generic. I can tell you it's not.

 

[GreenEdge]

But despite seeing these improvements, I am becoming aware of just how much time and effort it is going to take to ''Heal''

For me it took 8 months before I could definitely say “carnivore had benefited me in some way”.

So leaky gut takes a long time to ''Heal'' and the final step is a bowel cleanse - initiated by the immune system.

- I'm now noticing new smells: bed linen, cloths, soap residue left on hands, etc.
- I can now smell things I couldn't smell before.
- Taste ''bad'' and know “I can't eat that”. Twice in last 2 days I've had to throw out a Salmon fillet.

 

[GreenEdge]

Brain fog "I didn't know I had" is lifting. Woot

I'm feeling "all sorts of weird skin and muscle pain sensations" like there's nervous system recovery happening.

Update: Continues here: My CFS recovery success story