Carnitine

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Fred writes about L-Carnitine in the form of fumarate. I have carnitine in the form of tartrate. Is there any major problem with this? Any sound reasoning as to why it wouldn't work as well?

Follow-up question: What's the point of taking carnitine? Starting methylation at the base (B12, folate) should allow carnitine to be made via SAMe dependent methylation anyway?
 

nerd

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SAMe-dependant methylation is exactly what is overutilized in CFS/ME patients. L-Carnitine is indirectly coupled with the methylation, this makes it more susceptible to disruptions because other methylation-dependent metabolic cycles will be prioritized. By taking L-Carnitine, you can make sure that some of your supplementations go into this pathway. You couldn't take sufficient SAMe to compensate for an L-Carnitine deficiency. This would overutilize the methylation recycling processes and maybe cause side effects.
 

Learner1

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Fred writes about L-Carnitine in the form of fumarate. I have carnitine in the form of tartrate. Is there any major problem with this? Any sound reasoning as to why it wouldn't work as well?

Follow-up question: What's the point of taking carnitine? Starting methylation at the base (B12, folate) should allow carnitine to be made via SAMe dependent methylation anyway?
Carnitine plays a critical role in energy production. It transports long-chain fatty acids into the mitochondria so they can be oxidized ("burned") to produce energy. It also transports the toxic compounds generated out of this cellular organelle to prevent their accumulation.

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/C... role,organelle to prevent their accumulation.
 
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I've never experienced any effect from my l-carnitine tartrate. Apparently it either knocks people sideways or gives them a ton of energy. Is this because of the form I'm taking or is it just me?
 

nerd

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I've never experienced any effect from my l-carnitine tartrate. Apparently it either knocks people sideways or gives them a ton of energy. Is this because of the form I'm taking or is it just me?
The tartrate form has the highest/fastest bioavailability (10.1024/0300-9831.75.1.3).

I'm taking the acetylated form because it can directly cross the blood-brain barrier.

There are so many salts of L-Carnitine available and they are just marketing tricks in my opinion. Because in the end, it just results in L-Carnitine and whatever the added salt's function is. You can mix these salts with so many things and take them together with L-Carnitine and have the same outcome just with different absorption rates.

So it depends on the purpose you want to take it and every form has its pros and cons.
 

Learner1

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I've never experienced any effect from my l-carnitine tartrate. Apparently it either knocks people sideways or gives them a ton of energy. Is this because of the form I'm taking or is it just me?
One shouldn't expect a single supplement to create some magical change for the better or worse. Each one works with other cofactors to make entire processes work, so if it didn't work for you, possibly you're missing something else.
 
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One shouldn't expect a single supplement to create some magical change for the better or worse. Each one works with other cofactors to make entire processes work, so if it didn't work for you, possibly you're missing something else.
I'm starting it hoping that it's what is missing for my methylation protocol. I'm getting serious air hunger from B12, when it's otherwise helping me immensely. So maybe carnitine. Maybe some other random nutrient.

The human body is ridiculous, how is anybody healthy?
 
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How much do you take?
500 mg a day, if I remember. I periodically get disgusted and think the supplements are ineffective, so I stop taking them. Then when I start noticing that I am sleeping most of the day, I go back to the L-Carnitine. It also makes sense for me as I rarely eat meat.

My ME came on gradually and at first I thought I had Hypersomnia. When the L-Carnitine seemed to help I sent an email to the Hypersomnia Foundation. They wrote back that this supplement has been of interest to researchers in relation to Narcolepsy. My illness is worse now, and more consistent with ME, especially since I had an infected gall bladder removed.
 

nerd

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500 mg a day, if I remember. I periodically get disgusted and think the supplements are ineffective, so I stop taking them. Then when I start noticing that I am sleeping most of the day, I go back to the L-Carnitine. It also makes sense for me as I rarely eat meat.
I take 1-1.5g on keto. Below 1g, my cholesterin goes up. I'm also 95% vegetarian. Though I still need 10-12 hours of sleep.
 
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I've never experienced any effect from my l-carnitine tartrate. Apparently it either knocks people sideways or gives them a ton of energy. Is this because of the form I'm taking or is it just me?
I find that I am less sleepy with the Acetyl-L-Carnitine I take, but it does nothing for the fatigue
 
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I take 1-1.5g on keto. Below 1g, my cholesterin goes up. I'm also 95% vegetarian. Though I still need 10-12 hours of sleep.
I also need 10 to 12 hours. But now I don't have the sleep inertia I had in the past. However, the fact that I no longer work may also be a factor.
 

nerd

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I find that I am less sleepy with the Acetyl-L-Carnitine I take, but it does nothing for the fatigue
Interesting. I don't think I'm really "sleepy" anyway. After 5-6 hours of sleep, I feel like it's time to stand up but I feel exhausted/fatigued, so I continue sleeping as kind of a natural pacing mechanism. It's not brain fog either, because my brain fog disappeared with the keto.
 
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I'm starting it hoping that it's what is missing for my methylation protocol. I'm getting serious air hunger from B12, when it's otherwise helping me immensely. So maybe carnitine. Maybe some other random nutrient.

The human body is ridiculous, how is anybody healthy?
For some reason i always get air hunger from the protocol when i raise my B2 dose to high. anything over 25mg/day seems to trigger this.
 
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For some reason i always get air hunger from the protocol when i raise my B2 dose to high. anything over 25mg/day seems to trigger this.
Potentially vital information! I've been taking B2 by splitting 100mg into 4. So 25mg. I recently lowered this because I've been on the B2 a while. I do wonder if that's what it is! Although I have had air hunger when I wasn't taking B2 at all. Is that the only time you get it?
 
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Potentially vital information! I've been taking B2 by splitting 100mg into 4. So 25mg. I recently lowered this because I've been on the B2 a while. I do wonder if that's what it is! Although I have had air hunger when I wasn't taking B2 at all. Is that the only time you get it?
It happens pretty much only when i overdo B2 yes.

The only hypothesis i have for now would be that B2 could increased iron metabolism which would cause some kind of paradoxical iron deficiency??

I also seem to be able to fix the issue by taking some extra B3, 100mg do the trick usually. Once again not sure about the mechanism here (methylation buffer??)
 
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It happens pretty much only when i overdo B2 yes.

The only hypothesis i have for now would be that B2 could increased iron metabolism which would cause some kind of paradoxical iron deficiency??

I also seem to be able to fix the issue by taking some extra B3, 100mg do the trick usually. Once again not sure about the mechanism here (methylation buffer??)
Hmmm I dunno... On the one hand we're exhibiting the same symptom on the same methylation protocol for the same illness (or a similar one). On the other I think mine has a different cause.

I got sick April last year. It started with this air hunger and no other symptoms for a month. Then it disappeared and the classic CFS/ME symptoms began. Why would it disappear for months and then reappear when I start to improve through methylation? The naive, but possibly correct, interpretation is that on the way into the sickness and on the way out this symptom is present... But anyway, I really feel like it's methylfolate that stops the B12 from causing it, not the carnitine. But I'll keep an eye on the B2 as well.