can't get zinc/copper levels up

[girlfromeurope]

Hi I think methylation depleted my zinc level. So I started to take zinc, didn't help much with my symptoms.
Than I got symptoms of copper deficiency(white hair, spider veins, shortness of breath)
But the weird thing is my symptoms of zinc and copper deficiency get worse if I take a balanced supplement.

I also think I have a b6 deficiency(magnesium suddenly stopped working)
I read that you need zinc on order to get b6 absorbed, but you also need b6 to get zinc (and maybe copper) absorbed, this looks like a viscious circle?

Is there anything I can take with the zinc/copper,b6 to make it work more?

 

[PeterPositive]

Have you ever done a test for pyrolouria? It's a condition that may cause excessive dumping of B6 and Zinc.
Also what is your current dosage of those zinc, copper and b6?

 

[girlfromeurope]

Have you ever done a test for pyrolouria? It's a condition that may cause excessive dumping of B6 and Zinc.
Also what is your current dosage of those zinc, copper and b6?

No I haven't but I tried higher doses of zinc and b6 and didn't help. Before methylation I didn't have zinc/b6 deficiency.
Now I'm taking about 15 mg zinc,1mg copper and a half 25 mg b6 tablet.

 

[girlfromeurope]

I have tried zinc picolinate and zinc glycinate.
Maybe another form is better?

 

[PeterPositive]

I have tried zinc picolinate and zinc glycinate.
Maybe another form is better?

They are both good forms from what I understand. I have used zinc-methionine (OptiZinc) and zinc-carnosine which helps healing the guts. Max 25mg, they both work.

How do you know exactly that you have those deficiencies? Symptoms alone may not be enough to understand exactly what is going on. Usually signs of copper deficiency result in anemia and low neutrophiles count (neutropenia).
Do you know if you have any problems with those?

See here:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/copper/

I'd suggest to check your serum levels, and see if that's really what is going on otherwise you might be looking for the wrong cuplrit(s).

I had similar issues with B12 apparently not working as it used to, couldn't figure out what was going on. Then it started working again. Sometimes there are too many variables and sometimes it's difficult to pin down the problem.

 

[girlfromeurope]

They are both good forms from what I understand. I have used zinc-methionine (OptiZinc) and zinc-carnosine which helps healing the guts. Max 25mg, they both work.

How do you know exactly that you have those deficiencies? Symptoms alone may not be enough to understand exactly what is going on. Usually signs of copper deficiency result in anemia and low neutrophiles count (neutropenia).
Do you know if you have any problems with those?

See here:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/copper/

I'd suggest to check your serum levels, and see if that's really what is going on otherwise you might be looking for the wrong cuplrit(s).

I had similar issues with B12 apparently not working as it used to, couldn't figure out what was going on. Then it started working again. Sometimes there are too many variables and sometimes it's difficult to pin down the problem.

Did you find why the b12 wasn't working?

 

[PeterPositive]

Nope! LOL
I probably just went through a short period of extra fatigue and low mood and my dosage of B12 wasn't enough to keep me up. Often times just good or bad weather seem to have more influence on me than supplements do.

Typically in months such as May, June etc... just the good weather alone improves my energy and other symptoms more than chewing an entire bottle of B12 tablets!

 

[PeterPositive]

I am sure many people here can relate to those moments where you start feeling worst, or you are in one of those down phases and you start mulling over all the possibilities... maybe this isn't working anymore, maybe I should increase this vitamin, maybe I am taking too much X and Y, maybe supplement Z is giving me side effects ... ah! I love those moments, 'cause at least 50% of the times I am wrong! Darn it.

 

[ahmo]

I get my copper from v small bits of liver. I self-test, asking body whether it wants the liver/copper daily. Only need it a couple times a week, generally. I cut liver into small slivers, started doing this for feeding the cat. Freeze it in batches, defrost small amounts. Put a piece on my spoon, fill w/ a bit of broth, swallow.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Zinc can be a bit of a Catch-22. You need zinc to make something (an enzyme?) needed to absorb zinc. If you are low in zinc, you may have difficulty absorbing it. This is definitely a "start low, go slow" situation.

I also think testing would be a good idea. My doctor told me that blood test are not reliable for zinc and copper. She referred me to a dietitian who does hair mineral testing.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I want to add that I need to take digestive enzymes with zinc.

I did not get digestive enzymes the last time I shopped out of town. The last few days I have only taken one when I took zinc. Yesterday I was down to 1 enzyme and I take zinc twice/day. I decided to take the enzyme with my 2nd zinc. The first zinc made me very nauseous and I threw up part of my meal. I continued to have nausea yesterday and today. I have taken no more zinc.

 

[matters]

Should also do a zinc taste test.. last year when sipping zinc liquid it tasted like water a definite deficiency, also backed up by spectracell vit min test. which showed rock bottom levels

This year when i sip on the liquid zinc i can taste it and most recent spectracell still shows deficiency but up from rock bottom levels last year, i'm borderline now. So I would trust the "zinc taste test". many companies sell the zinc for testing..

 

[PeterPositive]

Should also do a zinc taste test.. last year when sipping zinc liquid it tasted like water a definite deficiency, also backed up by spectracell vit min test. which showed rock bottom levels

This year when i sip on the liquid zinc i can taste it and most recent spectracell still shows deficiency but up from rock bottom levels last year, i'm borderline now. So I would trust the "zinc taste test". many companies sell the zinc for testing..

You might try a urine test for pyroluria, which is relatively inexpensive, usually around 40-50 bucks.

 

[girlfromeurope]

I don't know what to do , everytime I take zinc I start feeling very jittery and my symptoms don't approve, same wit copper.

I also took cysteine because it helps absorbing zinc , same jittery feelings...

 

[PeterPositive]

How long have you been taking zinc?

When these kind of symptoms appear I would trust my body and back off from whatever supplement it is producing that effect. At least from some time.

There have been times in which I was feeling worse and couldn't figure out if it was because of any specific supplements, so I would stop them all, wait a few days and see if anything changed. Then slowly, over many days, I would reintroduce each one and write down any noticeable difference on a journal.

When I started Methyl-B12 I was having similar issues, feeling jittery for at least 2-3 hours straight. Not a nice feeling to add on top of all the other problems. So I started reducing the dosage and taking it only every other day. My body slowly became used to it and I was finally able to increase the dose.

If this doesn't work it's probably best to stop the zinc (and copper). At least for a few weeks.
I would also get a blood and hair test. Minerals are not as easy as water-soluble vitamins to keep in balance.

 

[girlfromeurope]

I've tried to take zinc for months. I think I can't get levels up because of b6 deficiency.
But you also need zinc to absorb b6 so it seems like it's a trap.

 

[xrunner]

Hi I think methylation depleted my zinc level. So I started to take zinc, didn't help much with my symptoms.

@girlfromeurope
not sure what methylation protocol you're following but zinc and copper should be already part of the basic multi.
Are you talking about serum and/or intracellular zinc and copper ?
What do your methylation panel results look like?

 

[girlfromeurope]

I stopped methylation a long time ago, but at that time I wasn't taking zinc/copper and b-vitamins, that was not smart of me. I'm talking about serum zinc and copper( with deficiency symptoms)

 

[xrunner]

If you're not vegan/vegetarian and you also have been taking a supplement, then any deficiency or imbalance of minerals are unlikely to derive from a low intake and so unlikely to benefit from additional supplementation. Furthermore if you have weird reactions from supplementing that is never a good sign and persisting is likely to do more harm than good.

A methylation panel could tell you whether you have a methylation partial block and fixing that may help with mineral balance.
However a lot of these imbalances, in my own experience, are related to oxidative stress and inflammation caused by immune system abnormalities which are usually associated with chronic (and often) hidden infections and supplementing won't help.
If that's the case, but you need proper testing to establish that, once you sort out those infections you may find that almost everything comes back naturally into balance.

 

[matters]

If you're not vegan/vegetarian and you also have been taking a supplement, then any deficiency or imbalance of minerals are unlikely to derive from a low intake and so unlikely to benefit from additional supplementation. Furthermore if you have weird reactions from supplementing that is never a good sign and persisting is likely to do more harm than good.

A methylation panel could tell you whether you have a methylation partial block and fixing that may help with mineral balance.
However a lot of these imbalances, in my own experience, are related to oxidative stress and inflammation caused by immune system abnormalities which are usually associated with chronic (and often) hidden infections and supplementing won't help.
If that's the case, but you need proper testing to establish that, once you sort out those infections you may find that almost everything comes back naturally into balance.

Toxins can create the imbalance as well. I became low in zinc, b12, magnesium, copper from mold toxins damaging the gut, leading to malabsorption. The infections soon followed. It's a chore to unravel it all and you mostly guess at what road to take and what to handle first, but as a general rule, eliminate toxins, heavy metals,, deal with inflammation response, kill bugs, rebalance minerals, It's difficult because I find myself trying to do everything at the same time and the body just doesn't multitask like that. I'm back to focusing on gut healing . That is the central hub