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Can detox Herx cause permanent damage to brain etc?

Mimi

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Thanks, Wayne. I like your detox formula! Bentonite is great; I forgot I had it on my shelf, so thanks for the reminder.

The homeopathic detoxifiers I like are Dentox (for heavy metals, especially those found in amalgam fillings) and Newton's Detoxifier. Newton's is an alcohol-based liquid, so if you are worried about a pet you can put a few drops on their ears.

Essiac tea is another easy one. I make up a batch about once a week using the Starwest Botannicals mix. I used to do oil pulling all the time, but making Essiac is so easy, I guess I forgot about it. Oil pulling is a terrific protocol, though.

I hope all your hard work is bearing fruit for you. It takes a lot of determination to get well!
 

SaraM

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Hi All,

After I did an intense anti-parasite protocol this spring, my health collapsed. I had terrible brain fog, fatigue and IBS-D along with the fevers, chills and sweats. In the first time of 18+ years with CFS, I was housebound, alone and nearly helpless.

But now I think I know what went wrong. When parasites die off, especially intestinal ones, they release a lot of toxins and through off the gut environment and flora balance. They get the toxins from our diet, our metabolities, and the metabolites of pathogens hidden inside of them. The also produce large quantities of ammonia, and may themselves be toxic inside.

Since I had a severe infestation, I think the parasites (small roundworms that looked like Trichuria) stored a lot of mercury from my fillings going back 20 or 30 years. That mercury would have been methylated by the bacteria, making it even more dangerous. So that's probably why I got the temperature instability: from mercury poisoning as the mercury got re-released into my gut. And that's probably also why the Mercuris solubilis 200C was so amazingly effective for my fevers.

But besides that, I think I just figured out a whole different piece. My lower abdomen, especially along the bottom colon, has always been cold, and more so whenever I get an attack of IBS-D. Well, anaerobic bacteria flourish when the aerobic bacteria count goes down and they ferment at lower temperatures than anaerobic bacteria. Bifidobacteria counts are low in people with ME/CFS, as well as Lactobacteria which support the growth of the Bifido. And when you don't have enough strains of Bifido and Lacto, you can't absorb many of the same nutrients that PWME are known to lack. Just have a look at your fingernails - do you see ridges? These can be a sign of malabsorption.

[Note that these include the B vitamins that are required for methylation. Doing Rich Van K's simplified methylation protocol made a huge difference for me from the very first day I took a quarter dose of the NHF multivitamin with TMG. I had so much energy I had to radically cut back my cortisol, thyroid and aldosterone prescriptions in order to sleep.]

I think it makes sense to take high-dose Bifido and Lactobacteria to replace what is lost as long as you avoid the D-Lactate producing strains (see the last link below). And by high dose, I don't mean the usual 1, 5 or even 50 billion cfu doses, but 100 to 800 billion cfus per day. These are available from www.customprobiotics.com. The owner's name is Harry and he's a chemist who knows gut cultures and developed his products to help people with gut problems after healing himself of them. Look for his D-Lactate Free product, or ask for a custom 9-strain mix that is D-Lactate free.

I'll post again after I try this myself, but from what I've been reading, I think this should heal up gut issues, food sensitivities, anxiety and brain fog. And I've noticed that when my gut is happy, my energy is better, too.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC252320/?tool=pmcentrez - Bifido metabolism of specific sugars
http://www.cfids-cab.org/cfs-inform/Hypotheses/logan.etal03.pdf - lacto and bifido and CFS
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2964729/?tool=pmcentrez - survey, includes ref below
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19567398 - Dr. Kenny D. Meirleir coauthored this one

Love, Mimi
Mimi,
How did you get tested for parasites and what kind of treatment helped you. I took a course of Ivermectin and noticed no difference, and now I really like to try Albendazole but I am worried it might damage my liver.

Best
 

Mimi

Senior Member
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Hi Sara,

I had a blood test - one of several over the years. Apparently parasites aren't easy to find and don't always show up on a test. Also, the test was positive for Ascaris, not Trichuria. I eventually looked it up and found that they cross-react.

Finally, after 6 months of denial, I took some Pin-X (one of many OTC brands of pyrantel pamoate) and saw the truth.

If it's any consolation, Mebendazole kills cancer by stopping mitotic division --- who knows, Albendazole may do the same.
 

Dreambirdie

work in progress
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Hi Mimi--Are you saying you had a BLOOD TEST FOR PARASITES? If so, then could you let me know exactly what the test was called? I am really curious about checking for parasites myself. I had an ameba years ago, and not too long after that, my health went down the tubes. I suspect that it weakened my digestion a lot and made me more susceptible to getting other bugs.

Thanks for your posts. Very informative too about the mercury. I am dealing with heavy metals all the time, and have not yet figured out the best approach. I will look into some of your suggestions.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
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Hi Mimi--Are you saying you had a BLOOD TEST FOR PARASITES? If so, then could you let me know exactly what the test was called? I am really curious about checking for parasites myself. I had an ameba years ago, and not too long after that, my health went down the tubes. I suspect that it weakened my digestion a lot and made me more susceptible to getting other bugs.

Thanks for your posts. Very informative too about the mercury. I am dealing with heavy metals all the time, and have not yet figured out the best approach. I will look into some of your suggestions.
Hi DB,

When I saw a really good parasitologist, he did a scraping from the bowel wall and a blood test. The blood test didn't directly show that I had a certain parasite, but showed the bodies attempt to attack the parasite and thus helped to confirm the findings from the bowel scraping.

After being successfully treated for the 2 parasites he found, my blood tests normalized also. I don't know if this is what Mimi is referring to, but it was interesting to me as no other doctor had checked the blood when testing for parasites.

Sushi
 

Mimi

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It was a blood test for Ascaris. Sorry, I don't recall any other specifics. But I do remember I had some odd counts, like eosinophils. Which is what the Mayo Clinic says you can test for: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ascariasis/ds00688/dsection=tests-and-diagnosis

If you had parasites, you may need to take probiotics, because I think the parasites kill them. That's why I'm going to start doing Bifidus - starting with 50 billion cfus and working up to 800 billion. Compare this to a capsule of Kyodophilus - 1 to 1.5 billion cfus. Apparently, it takes a lot to repopulate the gut, which in turn reduces anxiety and increases digestion and energy.
 

Mimi

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I seem to be having a good response to my Custom Probiotics 9-strain blend. I'm calmer and I have more energy and my thinking is clearer. My digestion is also improved. To be sure, I've also gone back to taking a low dose of hydrocortisone, so that could also be helping with energy and thinking. But the sense of well-being seems new, and D-Lactate free probiotics are supposed to ease anxiety as well as help improve energy and digest many different types of plant sugars and milk sugars.

See http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Bifidobacterium for more information or the four links in my post above.

Chris S., if you are still reading this thread, probiotics not only improve digestion, but they also crowd out gram-negative bacteria and boost your neurological function and immune response. But if you have parasites, or other gut issues like IBS or IBD, you need to take them in large doses (200 - 800 cfus/day) in order to repopulate the gut. Compare that to a high-dose probiotic yogurt which contains 50 billion cfus, or a single capsule of Kyodophilus which contains 1 to 1.5 billion cfus.

http://www.redlabs.be/red-labs/our-science/intestinal-dysfunction.php also has excellent information
 

chilove

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Hi Chris,

Calcium bentonite clay has been the only detox method I've been able to handle without feeling horrible. I am also a very poor detoxifer (MTHFR mutation) and also almost died last year and was in the hospital.

I started LDN (low dose naltrexone) and Rick Simpson's hemp oil and to my great relief I tolerated both. They helped reduce my overall reactions and inflammation to where I could function and go get half the amalgam out of my mouth. I got some wicked herxing from that and discovered the amazing benefits of clay. I take baths, and foot soaks and I take it internally and I am feeling SOOOOOO much better on it.

I agree with the person who suggested that you start out with just a little clay in the foot soaks and work your way up from there. Check out http://www.aboutclay.com/ and contact Perry A, the author of "Living Clay, Nature's Miracle Cure" at perrya@austin.rr.com for more guidance.

You may also want to check into sodium alginate. It is supposed to be very gentle as it doesn't actually chelate or "stir anything up".

It's so weird how different we are with food. I can't tolerate ANY protein very well and animal protein is the worst. It causes incredibly severe inflammation and pain and gives me delibitating neuro symptoms. I feel best on all fruit. I always joke that I'm a natural fruitarian. I've only been able to eat raw fruits and veggies for the last 12 years. Hopefully that will change soon now that things seem to be turning around.

Blessings,

Audrey
 

Beyond

Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!
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Chris, I saw your posts in Curezone. I think you could try the MICRONIZED version of glutamine. Thats what im doing anyway. Leaky Gut its probably the core of my problems and I am kind of reaching out. You see, lots of curezoners try normal glutamine for Leaky Gut and of course they fail. I think the differece lays in the micronized aspect. But also, leaky gut can be perfectly caused by candida or parasites so its a screwed situation. Leaky Gut at first seems a not-so-severe ailment but indeed its in the top of bad things to have in my opinion. Just realize the condition of the "Leaky Gut Forum" on Curezone, nobody posts, rare recovery stories, and most of them with different approaches (none with micronized glutamine, which indeed almost no one tried in that board or any other) Im surprised Gestalt sorted it out so easily (although it took him a long way to get to the point of trying micronized glutamine) Anyway, supporting digestion, upping protein and ensuring aminos are being assimilated, while rebuilding the intestinal lining should be basic. Even if I am parasite loaded this will give some relief while I try to figure out if I need Parastat or not.

Plus NAG its also very good for leaky gut they say. It cured the anxiety of one acknowledged member of here, and I think it was because it decreased intestinal inflammation and therefore brain inflammation.

After all, if you have discomfort or pain in your ribcage or suspect liver problems, juice carrots and beets, an MOAR veggies of course haha, do coffee enemas but not everyday and those nasty but popular liver flushes. From those, I still need to try the flushes. Anyway, luckily my liver seems to dont be a causative factor in my problems I never had that discomfort and I have been detoxing and taking care of it like crazy the last months. The detox was pretty obvious some days but later with the same procedures I didnt get it and im not seeing big improvements so... liver its important but not key for me.
 

Hip

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Chris, you have been trying detoxifiers like glutathione and NAC that pull toxins out of your body tissues and into you bloodstream, but not out of your body — thereby making you feel very ill, as your blood toxin levels increase.

Instead, you might consider using detoxifiers that pull toxins out of your intestines and right out of the body entirely. This approach would not increase the toxin levels in your blood during the detox process.

Supplements like chlorella are quite good at binding to toxins in the gut and pulling them right out of the body, as are slippery elm herb, soluble fiber (like psyllium husks and apple pectin), and bentonite clay.

There is also Questran (colestyramine) which is a prescription detoxifier. Dr Ritchie Shoemaker uses Questran for his detoxification protocol.
 

Hip

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What is this exactly? Is it like DMPS or EDTA?
No, Questran (cholestyramine / cholestyramine) does not enter the body like DMPS or EDTA, because Questran is not absorbed in the intestines.

As I understand it, bile acids are made by the liver. Bile acids trap toxins, but these trapped toxins can be re-absorbed in the passage of the bile acids through the bowels. Questran binds to these bile acids and trapped toxins in the small intestine, and ensures they are not re-absorbed in the bowels, but are instead eliminated in the feces.

In short, Questran makes your gut's elimination of toxins more efficient. Questran does have a few side effects, so chlorella might be the next best detoxifier if you want minimal side effects, and/or cannot get a doctor's prescription for Questran.
 

Beyond

Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!
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Hey Chris just an update. Im waiting for my micronized glutamine but I have realised we might need to clean the house of garb before trying to rebuild the walls. Check this out: http://bulkherbstore.blogspot.com.es/2009/11/dermographism-what-on-earth-is-that.html

I have a more severe case of dermographism than that guy. My skin goes inflammed like crazy with any bruising, scratching, rubbing or hitting. Following the suggestions of Hip the best product I have found for this purpose of cleaning would be Intestinal Drawing Formula by HealthForce Nutritionals, which has several of the supplements he mentioned and the ones in the article too. Dont forget the gut... the gut its foundational. I have a gut feeling about this. Haha. So the best would be a colon cleanse, something to keep the bowels moving like Schultze 1 and a parasite cleanse before attempting to cure the leaky gut. Lets see how I do this. I will report back.
 
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I ordered EDTA disodium calcium powder from pure bulk but don't know if 1teaspoon a day is safe (250g total package, they don't give density)? is the EDTA going to damage my kidneys like the warning says- it's only approved for lead poisoning?
wow so NAC is bad for methylation- I'm not sure what methylation is except that it creates new chemicals
 

Sushi

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I ordered EDTA disodium calcium powder from pure bulk but don't know if 1teaspoon a day is safe (250g total package, they don't give density)? is the EDTA going to damage my kidneys like the warning says- it's only approved for lead poisoning?
wow so NAC is bad for methylation- I'm not sure what methylation is except that it creates new chemicals
I'd sure check on that dose of EDTA. I have taken it by IV but no idea about dosing it orally. You certainly don't want to risk kidney damage.

Whether NAC helps or hinders methylation depends on many factors, so I don't think we can make a blanket statement here.

Sushi