Buddhism & CFS

[Jody]

Am picturing a dreambirdie with chicken legs and magenta nails, dancing in clogs.
On the deck.

Oh yeah. That is so you.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Am picturing a dreambirdie with chicken legs and magenta nails, dancing in clogs.
On the deck.

Now I really am going to burst my spleen from laughing!

 

[fresh_eyes]

Am picturing a dreambirdie with chicken legs and magenta nails, dancing in clogs.
On the deck.

Clogging! Do you guys know clogging? It's big around here.

 

[Jody]

I know OF clogging. I've seen it. Never done it.

 

[fresh_eyes]

I know OF clogging. I've seen it. Never done it.

Yeah, me neither. I'm not a real WNC local.

 

[Marylib]

What's happenin'?

Well I was planning to check into this thread when I had time and then I started reading and my brain fried. Seems some stuff has been goin' down, y'all.

At any rate, I am not into religion actually....but do some Buddhist meditations along with others that fit my devotional bent....never found religion to be helpful in experiencing that purity of consciousness that is the end all and be all to moi. Those moments come when they come and to me, meditation is a means of tuning in to who we really are. Yeah, something like that...

Hahha...uh...that's all....folks, says Elmer Fudd.

 

[_Kim_]

Maybe they ought to close the other thread (so it stops confusing people) and move its new posts over here (before there are too many)?

That seems like a perfect way to get this thread back on track, and then new posters won't get lost and will be able to read all the past goodies on this one?

I can merge the two threads together if that seems like a good thing to do...Only question would be where to put it - Comm. Lounge or Mind/Body??

 

[MEKoan]

I can merge the two threads together if that seems like a good thing to do...Only question would be where to put it - Comm. Lounge or Mind/Body??

Hi Kim,

I don't think there's much point in saving this thread, personally. It has much in it that is very valuable and we were all there for those moments.

Let's just let it roll away and perhaps another thread can be started re Buddhist practice and Meditation & ME/CFS... or not. Let's just see how it goes.

This may not be the right time. It should be put to Teejkay. The time will come again.

Peace out,
Koan

 

[Dreambirdie]

Hi Kim--

This thread has been such an inspiration for so many of us. Please don't chuck it. Merging it with the other one would be okie dokie with me...
and either place seems fine.

 

[Lucie]

Koan, we weren't all there for those moments.

Some of us lower-functioning ones can only read and digest a bit at a time, coming back as we can for a bit more.

But do what you need to do.

Lucie

 

[Dr. Yes]

Lucie's right, this thread has nice stuff on it that I still go back to, so whatever we do, it should remain as a... stump, I guess. I guess people could keep posting on either one; that's a nice non-linear way to go.

Whatever Koan and Teej say. They're the masterminds. Koan is my teacher. Kim's the DJ, freshie's the MC.

OK, I'll go to bed.

 

[MEKoan]

Hi Lucie,

It's not "my" thread, it's Teej's. Well, it's everyone's but I am putting it that way simply to illustrate that my thoughts on the thread carry no more weight than anyone's.

DrYes,

Are you going to bed, as in going to sleep, from yesterday?! Something tells me that this is not today's nap you are contemplateing but yesterday night's sleep!

As soon as I open my retreat, I'm checking you in!

Peace out,
Koan

ETA I don't think anyone was suggesting "chucking" the thread in any way. The discussion is about merging two threads which have diverged... in a wood, yes?

 

[starryeyes]

Thank you all for letting me decide. I actually started to panic when I was reading that you might chuck the thread. B R E A T H E

Ahhh.. I must remember to practice non-attachment.

Anyway, I would like this thread to stay in the lounge. I like to come down here to unwind from it all, don't you?

It's okey dokey with me if you want to merge the two threads or don't.

I think the main thing is that we got back on track. Auuummmmmmmm

Btw, I also love the fish head song! It brings back happy memories of camp.

 

[MEKoan]

Hey Teej,

This was a very interesting exercise in non attachment for me, too!

Who posted about "refraining". That was spot on for me because the thread became a place for me to practice understanding that I didn't need to always have something to say and that I did not need to try to influence something when it did not go as I thought it would.

It has been very useful for me.

Thanks for that!

 

[Dreambirdie]

Who posted about "refraining".

That was TREE, back before X-mas. It was a great post!

 

[Dreambirdie]

about refraining

I love this post, so now that Koan's mentioned it, I thought I'd re-post it for anyone who's interested.

I've never taken formal vows, but began reading in Buddhism when I first got hit by the CFS truck in 1985. This thread is so interesting!

What I found in the teachings were a way to handle things better, sometimes. And gradually I learned to not worry about the times I didn't handle things better, but that took a long time.

I was big on achieving before CFS, and so when I began studying Buddhism, I brought to it that same drive to fully understand and absorb, and a desire to "be a really good Buddhist" and a desire to live in such a way that others would see and (ego warning!) possibly even want to emulate the equanimity I was certain I could attain, if I just tried hard enough.

All that striving. Talk about missing the point!

But I learned a little bit, slowly. I remember a turning point - I can't remember where I read it, but I read that so much would be better if we could just REFRAIN.

I had to wrestle with that a lot. Refrain? Shouldn't I be out there trying to stop all kinds of bad things in the world? I was a political activist, and I was extremely verbal!

So refraining sounded bad to me. I had to turn that over for a long time. But eventually I could see how it didn't mean giving up trying to seek justice. But it did help me understand the wisdom of respecting others' viewpoints, even when I was opposed to their positions.

It helped me learn to speak less, and observe more. It stopped me from injecting my opinion too often. I sometimes taped "Refrain" near the phone so I would gradually learn to just let things go by, and not react. (I have a very emotionally intense family and circle of friends, and there was always a lot of drama going on.)

The learning to be less reactive is what helped me the most over the years. But still, I had my emotional meltdowns. Tears, anger, upsets. And I'd feel like such a failure as a Buddhist when that happened. Where was my equanimity? I'd be going along, thinking I had it down, and boom! I'd be a mess, like I'd learned nothing at all.

I had struggled with the concepts of attachment and non-attachment for so long. I felt like a "bad Buddhist" when I liked something too much, or "failed" by being angry.

And then - breakthrough! relief! I read that the Dalai Lama himself enjoys his hobbies and interests, which by the way, include World War II memorabilia! The Dalai Lama likes war things? Interesting! And a relief! It's ok to like some things and not like others as much. It's ok to have preferences and harmless desires.

And then I learned that when someone asked the Dalai Lama if he gets angry, he said, yes. And not only does he get mad sometimes, but he gets mad at family, just like me!

And then I heard Pema Chodron say that her children tell her she's incredibly uptight all the time! Just like I am sometimes!

What a relief! Finding out these things about such esteemed teachers helped liberate me from my misunderstandings about emotions, attachment, and so much else that I had struggled with in Buddhism. I had for a long time found bliss there, alternating with struggle. Now I could relax and just let it all be.

Where I am now is just going for acceptance of mind states, observing them as flowing, transient places, and extending lovingkindness when I can, and not trying to be "the best little Buddhist" with some A-plus practice of equanimity, kindness, or even meditation practice. Its ok to just be where Im at. No need to struggle.

Any religion can be fundamentalist, even Buddhism. I recoil from the stick, and have learned to relax with teachings, not use them to flog myself, or others, or compare progress.

"More Buddhist than thou" is just another mind trap, another instance of "comparing mind.

It can be so hard to be here now. Present moment living is a challenge for me, still. The difference now is, when I find myself in reverie about the past or future, I no longer try to yank myself back with any internal judgment. I just enjoy the reverie. Sometimes part of the present is remembering the past. Thats okay, too.

We all are just going along in this life. I have so much to learn. In fact, one of the things I read along the way was a book by a Buddhist laywoman, and she said, "I have so much stupidity to get rid of before I die!" Oh, yeah!

I still make judgments all the time. Im not sure if thats good or bad, or if it matters. I try to refrain from verbalizing them as much.

These days, Im working on skillful speech. I have a lot to learn there, and it would help my life and others in my life if I learned to not say anything unless its true, necessary or kind. Im listening more and talking less. I like the feeling of that. Theres peace in that. My family of lawyers and psychologists and talky, opinionated, crazy-beautiful people are primed constantly for debate. No one lets a remark go by without commenting also. I find such immense relief being out of that cycle, and just smiling and listening and watching the light change as they all speak.

Not having to convince anyone of anything maybe thats part of letting go of ego attachment. Not having to be a star, or compete, or try to be the best, or the most popular, or the most golden, or all those things that were an exhausting wheel.

So, what I've found ultimately in Buddhism is some help with learning to be less reactive, and also maybe some islands of equanimity I would not have found otherwise. I have gotten away from the complexities of the teachings and live more with things like "refrain" and "be kind" and "relax" and "enjoy" and "maybe so" and "okay."

Ive learned that compassion does not require that I be a doormat, and I so appreciate what Koan (I think it was her) said here about how good boundaries are a good thing for others, because it prevents their suffering. Yes! So well put. I will keep that in mind.

This has been way more than my two cents. Thank you for the place to put my thoughts together.

 

[gracenote]

a blessing all over again

Thanks Dreambirdie for posting Tree's post again. What a lovely way to start my day.

And thank you Tree for sharing. Your thoughts continue to move me.

 

[MEKoan]

Thanks for reposting this DB.

It's a very powerful little essay.

Thank you Tree!

 

[jackie]

Ok...so I pop my head out from the mangled bundle of blankets I call my bed - my lair...into the blinding light of day (I am sick, sick, oh-so-SICK...afraid I've lost all the hard-won ground I gained for the past three years - wondering if I'll ever feel the same again - and it wasn't all that great to begin with). So....now what?

I think OK...I'll peek into the Buddhist Thread (you know, in lieu of listening to my Pema Chodron cd "Good Medicine - How to turn Pain into Compassion with Tonglen Meditation") and I read and I read - but the only words (out of SO MANY words) I can seem to UNDERSTAND are:

1. chicken legs
2. Jody Llama Baby
3. Joseph Campbell
4. llamas, and Lamas
5. Fish Heads Fish Heads...Roly Poly Fish Heads (BTW - I didn't hear the Fish Head song....NO! I was given detailed instructions on how to apply hair Dye...I mean REALLY!? Hair Dye?)
6. Oh, and the "Dalai Lama"
7. and Billy Mumy? (or did I hallucinate that?)

Out of what? 29/30 pages? I felt like I kocked on the wrong door, on the wrong street, in the wrong neighborhood OR sort of the way I felt when in 1970, I drove thru Jack-In-The-Box, riding in the back of a friends Hearse and ordered a lot of food, after smoking some Acapulco Gold...and couldn't recognise anything or understand a word said for three days!

THAT'S what reading and attempting to follow the compelling twists and turns of this very interesting and yet sometimes strange thread reminded me of!

But then...as I continued to read, I started to feel BETTER! - like maybe I WAS on the right street, knocking on the RIGHT door and maybe I was HOME!

I began to "recognise" the names, to "hear" my friends voices, grasp each individual sense of humor - the unique and heart-felt writing styles.....yep, this is home!

I am B R E A T H I N G (quite Peacefully).....once, again

Love.....jackie

ps...thanks for Tree's Essay!

 

[Dreambirdie]

Hey Jackie--

Good to hear from you!

I am really very sad that you have been feeling so ill. It sucks. I hope you feel some relief and improvement as the days go by.

As for this thread... yes it has manifested some weirdness lately, but these diversions were in the interest of regaining sanity via goofiness.
Sometimes humor is the best route to take out of a stressful situation. If you know what I mean.

I think that's why the Dalai Lama has such a great sense of humor and such a hearty laugh.