Benzodiazapines

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@percyval577
In the brain there are a lot of metals. The most natural guess is, that they will have tasks. For some prominent metals some tasks are known, for zinc e.g.

So, if one wants to change the actions in the brain, it might be helpful to replace the metals.
Really interesting take ..... thanks for sharing it. It makes sense, tho I agree it may not work for everyone.

Still, with this pissy little illness, the more ways you have to go at it, the better your odds. I think.
 

percyval577

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@YippeeKi YOW !! I think so too. In my case it´s the second great help on top of a (slow) reverse.
Yes, this illness is little and pissy indeed, though has up-scaled wiliness in reaching everywhere.
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But also a WARNING, the approach of changing the concrete placement of metals under good circumstances implies that it could help detrimental circumstances to settle down in the brain simirarily.
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I have googled for GABA and have found:
GABA receptor-channel complex as a target for Hg, Cu, Zn and lanthanides Narahashi et al 1994
 

Oliver3

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Did anyone see Doctor Ron Davies at the Emerge conference. Someone asked him why ativan(valium) helped Whitney tolerate the journey to hospital when otherwise it would be impossible. Frustratingly, even tho, the question was asked twice, Dr Ron couldn't hear him. I have the same experience as some posters here, feel better when i take benzos. I have just started on amitryptaline and it has also improved my pain and functionality. I wonder what the mechanism of action is.
 

paul80

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@YippeeKi YOW !! Thanks, yea i already read your magnesium solution to the anxiety problem. That's the next thing i planned to try if the current supplements don't solve it.

Been off lamotrigine since sunday. started to get rebound effects but it's not too bad so far, compared to when i try and come off prozac anyway.

i've found the withdrawl effects from prozac impossible to tolerate (brain zaps, jerking all down left hand side of body, anxiety). So i just stay on 20mg every second day. that seems to work better for me than 20mg every day.

Once i'm over the lamotrigine totally, i'll try reduce xanax to 0.5mg and see how that goes.

A question i have for anyone here with experience on this. Somtimes, rarely i take Zopliclone if i can't sleep. should that fulfil the need for xanax if i am addicted or would that have no effect on it?
 

paul80

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Good luck, and please post back here and let us know how you're doing. I'm genuinely concerned, as I know the other posters are.
I switched from 1mg to 0.5 mg of xanax every 2 days. Been doing that for a couple of weeks i think.

I feel quite shitty on day 2 before i take the xanax. I used to think i just felt worse because i didn't have xanax for sleep the night before, but now i think it is withdrawl.

Next I'm going to try to draw it out longer before i take it, like geraldt52 suggested.
 
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@paul80
Somtimes, rarely i take Zopliclone if i can't sleep. should that fulfil the need for xanax if i am addicted or would that have no effect on it?
Sorry that this one slipped by me til now.

First, no, I dont think the Zopiclon would have ny effect, either positive or negative, on your body's need for Xanax. It's an hypnotic, used for sleep, and is NOT a benzo. Its a cyclopyrrolone. So no particular help there, except for the imprtant function of sleep.

Second, you're not an addict. Your body has become habituated to the Xanax, and now needs more of it to feel balanced. And then it'll need more, and more and..... etc.

You ARE habituated to the Xanax, and you're currently in tolerance withdrawal, which is when Drs inevitably prescribe higher and higher doses which will work until your body adjusts to them, then the whole crappy thing starts over.

The best way to deal with this is to transfer to Valium (diazepam, the generic, is cheaper), and then starte cutting your dose of diazepam VERY VERY slowly over a VERY long period, which will give your brain time to adjust to lower and lower levels, and produce the least turbulence.

Thank you so much for staying in touch re this. I've been wndering how you're doing. This is a very tough battle. I'm here for you whenever you need me.
 

Seadragon

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I don't think that anyone knows the answer to your question, but I think you are better off continuing to do what you are doing (1mg every few days). Try to stretch out the interval...use it only when you feel you absolutely have to. I offer this only as advice based on my experience, and only because I completely understand how difficult the smallest decisions can become when you're in the middle of something.

Twenty years after the worst Klonopin withdrawal you can imagine, I still occasionally use Ativan when I simply have to get some sleep...before a day that I absolutely have to do something. One has to function...occasionally. I never take it two days in a row, and it would be extraordinarily rare for me to use it twice in a month. I've done this for many years, without any real problem.
I agree with this. The trouble can start with taking these meds too frequently and in higher dosages.
 

Oliver3

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@paul80

Sorry that this one slipped by me til now.

First, no, I dont think the Zopiclon would have ny effect, either positive or negative, on your body's need for Xanax. It's an hypnotic, used for sleep, and is NOT a benzo. Its a cyclopyrrolone. So no particular help there, except for the imprtant function of sleep.

Second, you're not an addict. Your body has become habituated to the Xanax, and now needs more of it to feel balanced. And then it'll need more, and more and..... etc.

You ARE habituated to the Xanax, and you're currently in tolerance withdrawal, which is when Drs inevitably prescribe higher and higher doses which will work until your body adjusts to them, then the whole crappy thing starts over.

The best way to deal with this is to transfer to Valium (diazepam, the generic, is cheaper), and then starte cutting your dose of diazepam VERY VERY slowly over a VERY long period, which will give your brain time to adjust to lower and lower levels, and produce the least turbulence.

Thank you so much for staying in touch re this. I've been wndering how you're doing. This is a very tough battle. I'm here for you whenever you need me.
black seed oil is supposed to help relieve you in withdrawals from benzos
 
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The trouble can start with taking these meds too frequently and in higher dosages.
The trouble starts for some people with the first 1/2 or 1/4 dose. These medications seriously screw with your brain, your neuro system, and your CNS. There's almost no reliable way to take any benzo if you're in the unlucky group of hyper-sensitive patients, and since there's no test to determine of you are, it's like spinning the chamber and hoping for the best.

There are circumstances where they can be really helpful, but even then, the price on the other side is usually higher than you ever imagined going in. Drs don't warn you, and worse, they wont help you after the damage is done. You'll just get their copyrighted responses: "I've never heard of a response like that ...." or "These medications couldnt possibly be creating those problems ...." or "It's all in your head, you're a train wreck and a mess, and it's all your fault ..." or "You dont need less medication, you need more ....". Check out the stats on people who die from the agony of withdrawal, many by suicide, others by cardiac, liver, and kidney issues.

I wouldn't be so pissed off about all this if Drs would just warn patients up front (it's required by law, and called "Informed Consent"), or make any provisions for tapering their patients off of this crap. But they wont even admit that there's a problem. Just like opioids, they prefer the lucrative advantages that they get from prescribing this shite, and bugger the consequences for their patients.

Even if you take a small, very small, dose just two or three times a week, after a certain period of time, your GABAa receptors inevitably down-regulate, and when you stop the artificial support, there's no endogenous system left to help you get over the hump.


It's a national medical disgrace, and the consequences are as bad as those we've seen from the opioid mess, but Drs have managed to duck those consequences so far by just denying the existence of the problem, Unfortunately, chickens always find their roost, sooooooo ....
 

geraldt52

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As an aside, Lisa Ling recently did her hour long show This is Life on the lurking crisis of benzos. It was actually pretty good for a network program, drawing much needed attention to the down side of benzos...hopefully. I didn't learn anything, but as a veteran of Klonopin withdrawal my lessons came the hard way...the very hard way, and continue now nearly 20 years later. The program will undoubtedly be rerun, and is worth watching.
 

Seadragon

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The trouble starts for some people with the first 1/2 or 1/4 dose. These medications seriously screw with your brain, your neuro system, and your CNS. There's almost no reliable way to take any benzo if you're in the unlucky group of hyper-sensitive patients, and since there's no test to determine of you are, it's like spinning the chamber and hoping for the best.

There are circumstances where they can be really helpful, but even then, the price on the other side is usually higher than you ever imagined going in. Drs don't warn you, and worse, they wont help you after the damage is done. You'll just get their copyrighted responses: "I've never heard of a response like that ...." or "These medications couldnt possibly be creating those problems ...." or "It's all in your head, you're a train wreck and a mess, and it's all your fault ..." or "You dont need less medication, you need more ....". Check out the stats on people who die from the agony of withdrawal, many by suicide, others by cardiac, liver, and kidney issues.

I wouldn't be so pissed off about all this if Drs would just warn patients up front (it's required by law, and called "Informed Consent"), or make any provisions for tapering their patients off of this crap. But they wont even admit that there's a problem. Just like opioids, they prefer the lucrative advantages that they get from prescribing this shite, and bugger the consequences for their patients.

Even if you take a small, very small, dose just two or three times a week, after a certain period of time, your GABAa receptors inevitably down-regulate, and when you stop the artificial support, there's no endogenous system left to help you get over the hump.

It's a national medical disgrace, and the consequences are as bad as those we've seen from the opioid mess, but Drs have managed to duck those consequences so far by just denying the existence of the problem, Unfortunately, chickens always find their roost, sooooooo ....
I agree these are risky drugs @YippeeKi YOW !! and having been through the same as @geraldt52 with Klonopin myself (I only take one of the Z drugs when absolutely necessary to function nowadays and wish I didn't have to do that) I know from personal experience that two or three times a week can be a slippery slope and land some people in trouble - I was one of them.

I guess I was thinking more about the very severely affected ME sufferers where a once or twice a month dose Ativan is a lifeline for some and the only time they are able to connect with the outside world or their family and enjoy some quality of life temporarily.

I would be very interested in the opinion of those with a medical or science background (is @Jonathan Edwards or @alex3619 still here?) as to why benzos help alleviate some ME sufferers symptoms temporarily.
 
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2Cor.12:19

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I humbly have to disagree with some who believe that habituation always leads to a dosage increase. I speak for myself and for many others who have successfully used the same (low) dose of Xanax for many years.

I couldn't tolerate SSRI's and have been on the same daily dose for 21 years for generalized anxiety and panic disorder. .25 @ bedtime and 1/2 of that 3 times a day. Habituation? Yes. The need to increase dose? No- in fact I even reduced the daily dose at one point and have stayed there for years.
 
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paul80

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I couldn't stop so i ended up taking it every night. (1/2mg). the effects diminished over time.

Really having a horrible time now when not on the drug. getting bad sleep and the last 4 days during the day is hell. It's just been hyperstimulation* but exauhsted, high emotion, worrying, no appetite.

Going to try taking half my dose during day to sleep. Speak to my doctor on monday.

Any advice would be appreciated.

*hyperstimulation, that's probably the wrong term but i can't relax, my mind is racing. maybe overstimulated?
 
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2Cor.12:19

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I couldn't stop so i ended up taking it every night. (1/2mg). the effects diminished over time.

Really having a horrible time now when not on the drug. getting bad sleep and the last 4 days during the day is hell. It's just been hyperstimulation* but exauhsted, high emotion, worrying, no appetite.

Going to try taking half my dose during day to sleep. Speak to my doctor on monday.

Any advice would be appreciated.

*hyperstimulation, that's probably the wrong term but i can't relax, my mind is racing. maybe overstimulated?
I’m sorry you’re having a rough time. It’s good that you’ll be talking to your doctor soon.

I can only speak for my situation because we’re all different, but my doctors have always said taking a little extra for just a few days won’t cause dependence on the dose increase. I’ve had to do this when I get bouts of vertigo and was able to return to my regular dose a few days later with no problems.

As for weaning down on habituated dosages, I’ve had success doing it VERY slowly. I take one half of a .25 tab (.12.5) and shave a little off - take it for several days, shave a little more, repeat, until I’ve eliminated the 12.5 dose.
I read how to do that that in a book by a psychiatrist. I’ve only ever gone down by one dose, but that’s how he recommend weaning.

Most doctors seem to wean off Xanax too fast and it causes rebound problems.

Hope your doctor can help you out tomorrow.
 

paul80

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I bought my xanax on the black market when i was desperate. My doctor can't prescribe xanax in this country (U.K) so i don't know what she will say. I'm guessing she will prescribe me valium because she has in the past but in a very low dose.

Thanks for the advice, i'll do it slowly.
 
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Really having a horrible time now when not on the drug. getting bad sleep and the last 4 days during the day is hell. It's just been hyperstimulation* but exauhsted, high emotion, worrying, no appetite.
You seem to be in serious tolerance withdrawal, the effects of which are the same as cold turkey withdrawal.

I think it's great that some people have found that constant dosing with benzos like Xanax and all its many relatives works for them, but this isn;t the case for a large subsection of the patient population.

Paul, see if you can google up The Ashton Manual and give it a browse. This will give you a pretty clear picture of what you need to do to get off this shite with minimal damage and maximum possibility of success.

I'm so sorry you're going thru this. It's hell, and the worst part is the absolute lack of sympathy or meaningful help you'll get from your prescribing Dr.

Please keep posting here and let us know how you're doing yes?


As an aside, I don;t think the magnesium will help enough, at least not until you increase your GABA/Glute balance, which the Xanax has drop-kicked into oblivion. Your GABA receptors have down-regulated to the point of invisibility, so without the Xanax or sme other benzo or benzo-substitute like Klonopin, you have no defense against extended excitotoxic reactions. This is what causes a lot of your responses right now, and it's what creates, to a huge extent, the hell of withdrawl whether actual or tolerance-based.

Tag me if you have any questions. I'll be here for you.
 
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Most doctors seem to wean off Xanax too fast and it causes rebound problems.
I agree with you. And most Drs know nothing about getting off the crap they put you on, and have even less interest in learning anything about it, which could expose them to severe bouts of conscience and a substantial loss of income.


Your system of shaving down a half dose into tiny amounts makes sense, and it can't be stressed enough that this has to be done very, very, very, VERY slowly. Anything else will cause severe, and in some cases irreparable, damage.
 
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Seadragon

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@paul80 I got a lot of help and support from the website Benzobuddies (not sure if it is still going now but try googling it) when weaning off benzos.

Also @Freddd who I believe still posts here on the B12 section of the forum set me up with a slow taper plan that worked well for me. He has helped several other former members here with tapers/weaning off benzos as well as myself.