Bains Dérivatifs--Cold Water Therapy

[Asklipia]

I suppose no-one liked my Bains Dérivatifs enough to persevere with them. However they helped me enormously.
Here is a study that may explain partly why :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10396606
Improved antioxidative protection in winter swimmers.
Siems WG, Brenke R, Sommerburg O, Grune T.
Source
Herzog-Julius Hospital for Rheumatology and Orthopaedics, Bad Harzburg, Germany.
Abstract
Adaptation to oxidative stress is an improved ability to resist the damaging effects of reactive oxygen species, resulting from pre-exposure to a lower dose. Changes in uric acid and glutathione levels during ice-bathing suggest that the intensive voluntary short-term cold exposure of winter swimming produces oxidative stress. We investigated whether the repeated oxidative stress in winter swimmers results in improved antioxidative adaptation. We obtained venous blood samples from winter swimmers and determined important components of the antioxidative defense system in the erythrocytes or blood plasma: reduced and oxidized glutathione (GSH and GSSG), and the activities of superoxide dismutase (SOD), glutathione peroxidase (GPx) and catalase (Cat). The control group consisted of healthy people who had never participated in winter swimming. The baseline concentration of GSH and the activities of erythrocytic SOD and Cat, were higher in winter swimmers. We interpret this as an adaptative response to repeated oxidative stress, and postulate it as a new basic molecular mechanism of increased tolerance to environmental stress.
Be well!
Asklipia

 

[Asklipia]

And this :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17999770
Possible stimulation of anti-tumor immunity using repeated cold stress: a hypothesis.
Shevchuk NA, Radoja S.
Source
Department of Radiation Oncology, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, VA, USA. nshevchuk@comcast.net
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
The phenomenon of hormesis, whereby small amounts of seemingly harmful or stressful agents can be beneficial for the health and lifespan of laboratory animals has been reported in literature. In particular, there is accumulating evidence that daily brief cold stress can increase both numbers and activity of peripheral cytotoxic T lymphocytes and natural killer cells, the major effectors of adaptive and innate tumor immunity, respectively. This type of regimen (for 8 days) has been shown to improve survival of mice infected with intracellular parasite Toxoplasma gondii, which would also be consistent with enhanced cell-mediated immunity.
PRESENTATION OF THE HYPOTHESIS:
This paper hypothesizes that brief cold-water stress repeated daily over many months could enhance anti-tumor immunity and improve survival rate of a non-lymphoid cancer. The possible mechanism of the non-specific stimulation of cellular immunity by repeated cold stress appears to involve transient activation of the sympathetic nervous system, hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal and hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axes, as described in more detail in the text. Daily moderate cold hydrotherapy is known to reduce pain and does not appear to have noticeable adverse effects on normal test subjects, although some studies have shown that it can cause transient arrhythmias in patients with heart problems and can also inhibit humoral immunity. Sudden immersion in ice-cold water can cause transient pulmonary edema and increase permeability of the blood-brain barrier, thereby increasing mortality of neurovirulent infections.
TESTING THE HYPOTHESIS:
The proposed procedure is an adapted cold swim (5-7 minutes at 20 degrees Celsius, includes gradual adaptation) to be tested on a mouse tumor model. Mortality, tumor size, and measurements of cellular immunity (numbers and activity of peripheral CD8+ T lymphocytes and natural killer cells) of the cold-exposed group would be compared to those of control groups (warm swim and no treatment). Cold-water stress would be administered twice a day for the duration of several months.
IMPLICATIONS OF THE HYPOTHESIS:
If the hypothesis is supported by empirical studies and the method is shown to be safe, this could lead to the development of an adjunctive immunotherapy for some (non-lymphoid) cancers, including those caused by viral infections.

 

[Asklipia]

Well, I did not do the complete cold bath. Bains Dérivatifs do not require that you get cold. It works at home with a minimum of discomfort. And it does work and produces the same effects I think as winter swimming.

 

[justy]

I suppose no-one liked my Bains Dérivatifs enough to persevere with them. However they helped me enormously.
Here is a study that may explain partly why :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10396606
Improved antioxidative protection in winter swimmers.
Siems WG, Brenke R, Sommerburg O, Grune T.
Source
Herzog-Julius Hospital for Rheumatology and Orthopaedics, Bad Harzburg, Germany.
Abstract
Adaptation to oxidative stress is an improved ability to resist the damaging effects of reactive oxygen species, resulting from pre-exposure to a lower dose. Changes in uric acid and glutathione levels during ice-bathing suggest that the intensive voluntary short-term cold exposure of winter swimming produces oxidative stress. We investigated whether the repeated oxidative stress in winter swimmers results in improved antioxidative adaptation. We obtained venous blood samples from winter swimmers and determined important components of the antioxidative defense system in the erythrocytes or blood plasma: reduced and oxidized glutathione (GSH and GSSG), and the activities of superoxide dismutase (SOD), glutathione peroxidase (GPx) and catalase (Cat). The control group consisted of healthy people who had never participated in winter swimming. The baseline concentration of GSH and the activities of erythrocytic SOD and Cat, were higher in winter swimmers. We interpret this as an adaptative response to repeated oxidative stress, and postulate it as a new basic molecular mechanism of increased tolerance to environmental stress.
Be well!
Asklipia

Some interesting studies. What concerns me with this one is that we are already showing a hugely increased amount of oxidative stress in PWME - yet we do not seem to have this adaptive response (why would one stressor - swimming in cold water - cause it and others not?) My other concenr that this paper throws up for me is that i have a problem with the expression of my SODase gene - therefore i dont seem to be able to increase my antioxidant defence. I wish i knew of a way round this or what was causing the damage to this gene (toxins?)

I am glad the bains derivitifs helped you - i have to admit to being itnerested. but didnt try it.
All the best, Justy

 

[Asklipia]

I am now in a new experiment. The only serious problem left for me now is my increasing blurry vision. It seems all the rest is fine and only this is left but worsening.
So I am trying the cold face bath.
In a bowl of cold water, + a handful of ice cubes to bring it to really cold (very hot now over here), I put my face for 30 seconds, taking care of relaxing the eyes (shut). Take out the face for a couple of leisurely breaths, then back. Five times. It is extremely pleasant, and afterwards brings a kind of eerie dreamy feeling that does not last more than an hour for the moment.
I started this once yesterday. I woke up this morning with dark circles around the eyes, otherwise they feel a little bit less hot than usual.
Today I am doing three times the procedure.
Be well,
Asklipia

 

[maryb]

"and increase permeability of the blood-brain barrier, thereby increasing mortality of neurovirulent infections"

Can you tell me what this means? I must admit like Justy I have been interested in this but having such a bad back and mobility problems puts me off.

 

[Asklipia]

Sorry maryb, I am no scientist and cannot explain more.
I am giving these links as possible explanations for my success at recovery. I did my Bains dérivatifs with a bad knee (unable to walk for more than 10 m) and a broken arm. And I started this in the middle of a winter when I had no central heating and was miserable. I HAD to try to do something to get better. I was on the slippery slope I thought and desperate.
If what was ailing me was some kind of mycoplasma (very possible) I feel that I have halted the disease (except for my eyes at the moment). It could have been by "increasing the mortality of a neurovirulent infection".
It could be that my recovery is only partial and not permanent but I treasure this happy time on earth for as long as it may last.
Best wishes!
Asklipia

 

[Little Bluestem]

I did find this interesting and saved the information for "some time when my life is less hectic". Right now I just can't wedge it in.

 

[Asklipia]

It works also on pigs!!! http://arbroath.blogspot.gr/2012/11/farmer-claims-diving-makes-pigs-bacon.html
Be well!
Asklipia

 

[Sushi]

I am now in a new experiment. The only serious problem left for me now is my increasing blurry vision. It seems all the rest is fine and only this is left but worsening.
So I am trying the cold face bath.
In a bowl of cold water, + a handful of ice cubes to bring it to really cold (very hot now over here), I put my face for 30 seconds, taking care of relaxing the eyes (shut). Take out the face for a couple of leisurely breaths, then back. Five times. It is extremely pleasant, and afterwards brings a kind of eerie dreamy feeling that does not last more than an hour for the moment.
I started this once yesterday. I woke up this morning with dark circles around the eyes, otherwise they feel a little bit less hot than usual.
Today I am doing three times the procedure.
Be well,
Asklipia

I saw a feature on the news last night on cryotherapy (

) for the whole body and for the face. Interesting! I think they put the patient in extreme cold for about 2 minutes for the body and used some device to treat the face with cold for about 10 minutes.

Also, have you seen that Walgreens, Walmart etc. sell a type of sitz bath that fits in the toilet?

Sushi

 

[maddietod]

Asklipia, how did your face experiment work out?

Madie

 

[Asklipia]

Asklipia, how did your face experiment work out?

Madie

Yes!!!!!!
I did not report yet because the improvement comes and goes. At the moment, I have recovered from -12.5 myopia to -2 myopia. I do not need glasses anymore that is. It has been like this for approximately one month, with some days when it was a bit blurry on waking and some others even better.
I have stopped the face dunks because every day I do one of those :
- either I go swimming in the lake (for about 45 mns - the water is 21°C not cold but I suppose you cool your body if you stay long enough. I open my eyes in the water to cool them even more)
- I do 25 mns Bains Derivatifs
Also every day at the end of my shower I turn the water on cold for about 3-5 minutes, focusing on shoulders, adrenals, face, throat and armpits. I sing a long song which lasts for that amount of time. So I can measure time but also it helps create more NO.

If the burning eyes happened again I would add the face dunks.
I am convinced these eye problems (cataracts, glaucoma, and blurry vision) are lymphatic problems due to a sympathetic-parasympathetic equilibrium gone wrong, maybe consecutive to a problem with BH4-NO.
Exposure to cold gives a kind of reset, this is what I feel.

I noticed that my experiment makes me VERY happy. I sleep like a log and do not want to get out of bed in the morning because I find my bed is too comfortable!!!!!!

So I am hooked now!
Lots of good wishes!
Be well!
Asklipia
FFP

 

[ukxmrv]

I love cold water and over the decades I've done bathing in the sea and cold outdoor pools. The chlorine makes indoor ones not suitable and they are usually heated.

My local "turkish bath" has a cold pool and I'll get there when I can.

However for long periods of time I'm simply housebound and unable to get to these. So then I do the cold baths. I've also done the cold face dunks, cold water soaks for my feet and legs (and other things over time).

Sadly, it has not effect on my core viral type ME symptoms. What it does do is make the chronic "burning up without a fever" more tolerable and I suspect that it makes the POTs better. Something to do with blood pressure is helped and I feel more easy to stand, can do more physically that way and I feel more alert.

For me it's a pleasent thing to do but with such limited energy something that doesn't return very much.

 

[Asklipia]

Happy New Year everyone!
I wish that you will try my cold baths this year and enjoy them.
Has anyone secretly benefitted yet?
When I compare myself today to how I was feeling last year, I find a huge improvement.
Lots of love to all!
Asklipia

 

[Megaera]

Yes!!!!!!
I did not report yet because the improvement comes and goes. At the moment, I have recovered from -12.5 myopia to -2 myopia. I do not need glasses anymore that is. It has been like this for approximately one month, with some days when it was a bit blurry on waking and some others even better.
I have stopped the face dunks because every day I do one of those :
- either I go swimming in the lake (for about 45 mns - the water is 21°C not cold but I suppose you cool your body if you stay long enough. I open my eyes in the water to cool them even more)
- I do 25 mns Bains Derivatifs
Also every day at the end of my shower I turn the water on cold for about 3-5 minutes, focusing on shoulders, adrenals, face, throat and armpits. I sing a long song which lasts for that amount of time. So I can measure time but also it helps create more NO.

If the burning eyes happened again I would add the face dunks.
I am convinced these eye problems (cataracts, glaucoma, and blurry vision) are lymphatic problems due to a sympathetic-parasympathetic equilibrium gone wrong, maybe consecutive to a problem with BH4-NO.
Exposure to cold gives a kind of reset, this is what I feel.

I noticed that my experiment makes me VERY happy. I sleep like a log and do not want to get out of bed in the morning because I find my bed is too comfortable!!!!!!

So I am hooked now!
Lots of good wishes!
Be well!
Asklipia
FFP

Asklipia: the practice you've described (face dunks) is a powerful vagus nerve stimulator, sometimes referred to in connection with the Diving Mammal Reflex and used (carefully) to relax and even slow tachycardic heart rates. More dramatic than the Bains you described initially, which I recently read about, and am now trying out on your recommendation. Trust all will be well with you.

Regards,
Megaera

 

[Asklipia]

I hope you enjoy the Bains, Megaera!
Do report on your results!
I am a bit disappointed that no-one does, and I suspect no-one tries them, when they make me so happy.
Certainly they have helped with alpha-MSH and resetting the hormones, in a kind of subtle way, not as startling as taking cold baths and Cold Thermogenesis as advised by Dr Kruse. Which I tried, found satisfactory, but worked too fast for me. Easy does it, since I am not now suffering from anything too terrible.
This gentle approach has worked for me. But it is true that I swim in the lake at least every other day, and that exposure to Nature and sun must be a big help.

I stopped the face dunks because I am not sure that they were not inducing some kind of detox through the eyes. No need to brutalize my eyes, I can take a slow road to radiant health now.

My heart has always been perfect and reliable, as well as my blood pressure. Most probably because all adaptation is automatically done in my case with breathing, deepening the breath, stopping the breath etc. Which means in fact regulating Nitric Oxide in a personal way, just by instinct without willing it. Because of all that swimming since childhood I have large reliable lungs that seem to know what to do. The problems had been pushed to the brain/eyes/legs. When I could not walk anymore I could still hold 30 kg at arms length.
Some chakras were overwhelmed, but not all of them.

I hope that you enjoy the healing shivers and the bliss!!!!
Best wishes!
Asklipia

 

[cph13]

Froufox,
I had tried the hot and cold showers too. The effect is not the same.
Cold showers seem good for general blood circulation, changing the blood of the organs, then giving a good sweat, but I never had the same results that I had with the BD. Maybe because the cold brings a sympathetic response? Or because the muscles tense and impede the flow of the lymph?
Also I think I did myself no good taking long hot baths with magnesium sulphate when I was in very big pain. Now I realize the heat was not good. If I take magnesium it is in sea water when swimming or with a little spray I made myself of magnesium chloride solution.
Best wishes!
Asklipia

Can you expand on the magnesium choloride solution. I have alta mag. chlor I would love more info when U have time
Hugs

 

[Asklipia]

Can you expand on the magnesium choloride solution.
Hugs

I buy magnesium chloride from the chemist (no brand, just pharmaceutical grade). Then I take a small bottle with a spray, fill it with warm water, then add as much magnesium chloride as will dissolve in it.
I get saturated magnesium chloride solution. Maybe $ 1 a gallon.

I spray this on my belly and back after a shower. It may tingle a bit. In that case, use less and skip a day.

I only do this when I cannot go swimming in my lake which has seawater in it. Otherwise I think I take enough magnesium from seawater.
Be well!
FFP

 

[GracieJ]

Just found this thread, happy it resurfaced. So interesting, I just may have to try it out. I do hate cold, but this makes so much sense on the lymphatic drainage end.

Asklipia I had trouble with blurred vision for years with ME/CFS. So annoying. After what amounted to a huge detox (used hCG for weight loss, more interested in getting rid of candida from 20 years -- it worked!!), my eyes changed BACK 1.5 diopters, which just shocked the doctor no end. He had never seen that happen, said it NEVER happens, but as both eye exam results one year apart were in his own handwriting, he couldn't doubt it. That was two years ago. I had another eye exam this week, and have had additional improvement.

Hope to hear more of your experiences, and if I get brave enough to sit and do this technique, I will let you know back what happens. I'm always on the look-out for techniques like this -- they fit in well with what I know and use as a massage therapist.

 

[Asklipia]

Thank you so much GracieJ for your encouragements for my eyes. Really they are the last real problem I have. I am sure they are linked to a lymphatic problem and since all the rest is really fine now with very very little supplementation (daily : 25 mg or twice 25 mg B2, 10 mg manganese, 3 mg melatonin) I have high hope for my eyes!!!! No reason they would not heal like the rest.

Don't you think you have to be brave for the Bains Derivatifs, on the contrary they are so easy and comfortable, you are NOT supposed to get cold, it works by bringing on an internal shiver shaking the lymphatic system.
It is PLEASANT!!!!

Lots of good wishes!
Asklipia
FFP