B12 increases need for magnesium

[Sherpa]

@shannah I believe that the conversion goes: Riboflavin -> R5P -> FMN -> FAD. I'm not a biochemist so don't quote me.

The form found is natural food is riboflavin. The body should be able to convert it for most people into FMN and FAD, the bioactive metabolites.

Oral R5P in my own experience is not quite as good as plain Riboflavin. I think it has to get converted back into riboflavin in the gut, then it gets turned back into R5P deeper inside the body. But FMN, when taken SUBLINGUALLY...bypasses the gut...goes right into the blood and seems to be a bit more potent than Riboflavin. Its just one step from FAD...which is what the MAO A enzyme requires.

That being said, I just take Riboflavin because its cheap, natural and works great for me personally. It does not erode tooth enamel like sublinguals can. Riboflavin has been clinically proven to work in scientific studies. Sublingual FMN seems to work for me and has other anecdotal reports that its good...but its a somewhat experimental treatment.

 

[PeterPositive]

I'm a little confused on the differences between two of the three forms of B2.

I know one is the active form while the other is a form which requires conversion in the body. But within the active forms, there appear to be two types. One is the form of B2 called R-5-P and the other is a form called FMN, which is the one @ahmo is having good results with. Both are active coenzymes.

When I look up riboflavin, it says riboflavin is the central component of the cofactors FAD and FMN.

Does the R-5-P contain both the FMN and the FAD components while the Source Naturals product contains only one of the components???

Other than the Source Naturals FMN being sublingual, can anyone shed light on what I'm missing here?

R-5-P is another name for FMN:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavin_mononucleotide

 

[ahmo]

@ahmo molybdenum 5 to 3 BID (twice a day)... but what units? 5 pills, 5mg (which sounds like a lot)??

Yes, a lot. I'd followed the lead of @aaron_c as I was seeking to understand, or at least reduce, my ammonia/peroxynitrite burden. I now suspect my bigger problem, at least in recent months, has been peroxy. So I increased molybd. The tablets are Country Life 150 mcg. So I had been finding my body wanted 1.5mg/day, and now .9mg.

Here's one of the posts which influenced me. He's responding to my cry for help when I found B2 had me drowning in ammonia. Bold is my addition, from my notes. Now I can bookmark this post.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/b2-i-love-you.15209/page-42#post-533217

Aaron_c: (to me) If it helps, out of ALA, NAC, taurine, and denatured whey, only NAC, taurine, and denatured whey would contribute to ammonia, while all four would contribute sulfur. From what you quoted above, b2 should help convert toxic sulfites to helpful sulfates. However, I may have found the answer

As you probably know, sulfites and converted to sulfates by sulfite oxidase, which utilizes molybdenum. Some people (myself included) find that we need to take a relatively high amount of molybdenum, else we run into sulfur issues. But I have been wondering if sulfur was not the only drain on molybdenum, and your case might be indicating this.

Although sulfite oxidase is not a flavoprotein (it does not use B2), xanthine oxidase, which also uses molybdenum, is. Xanthine oxidase interconverts hypoxanthine, xanthine, and uric acid. Uric acid, according to wikipedia (citing a study I cannot immediately get access to) accounts for “over half the antioxidant capacity of blood plasma” in humans. Perhaps what happened is that when you added B2, your body increased the activity of xanthine oxidase in order to make more uric acid from xanthine and hypoxanthine, thus quenching some free radicals. In doing so, it also stole molybdenum from sulfite oxidase, making it unable to convert sulfites to sulfates. If this all is the case, it seems like taking extra molybdenum might fix the problem.

Of course, as with any attempt to find a new equilibrium after changing supplement doses, even if this is right, it might not prove to be the end of the story. But perhaps we can hope.

If you would like to visualize this (I know this helps me) check out http://biochemical-pathways.com/#/map/1 and type “xanthine” into the search box. Hypoxanthine is beneath it, and uric acid (they call it urate) is to the right.