Astragalus root to treat CFS/long covid.

[andyguitar]

Double blind trial. Not much detail but whats here is interesting.

 

[Violeta]

Me going to take some astragalus.

 

[Mary]

@andyguitar - I have no doubt the astragalus helped the nurses with their "chronic fatigue", but I don't think they had ME/CFS. I've been taking astragalus off and on, as needed, for almost a year I think. It has been very helpful with a post-infection fatigue which I think was from elevated IL-6 after repeated sinus infections - see this post - I'm guessing the nurses may have been dealing with something similar. Because astragalus has done nothing for my ME/CFS - limited energy envelope, PEM, etc.

This thread is what got me taking astragalus: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...il6-cause-muscle-weakness.92308/#post-2464358

We really really need a biomarker for ME/CFS!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

the nurses are presumably employed, being nurses.

Well, you cannot have very severe Chronic Fatigue, if you're also "working as a nurse".

The home nurse who visited me, sent by my insurer, said she had Fibromyalgia. She was working full time. She said they'd never help me. The insurer. Nice message to receive from your insurer. But at least that woman was honest. They probably do not help her, either.

 

[cfs since 1998]

The abstract is confusing and unfortunately the full text is paywalled.

"In the control group, chronic fatigue was statistically significantly different before and after the intervention (72.2%; p=0.003)."

What does 72.2% mean? I don't understand what this is abstract is trying to say.

 

[Violeta]

I agree, Mary, Astragalus is helpful, but it, alone, hasn't cured me, either.

I just wonder if hitting post-viral weakness right away with beneficial herbs, you can avoid the looooooong term illness.

 

[Violeta]

the nurses are presumably employed, being nurses.

Well, you cannot have very severe Chronic Fatigue, if you're also "working as a nurse".

The home nurse who visited me, sent by my insurer, said she had Fibromyalgia. She was working full time. She said they'd never help me. The insurer. Nice message to receive from your insurer. But at least that woman was honest. They probably do not help her, either.

I was thinking the same thing. And nursing is a very physically demanding job.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

The abstract is confusing

May be a translation problem.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I just wonder if hitting post-viral weakness right away with beneficial herbs, you can avoid the looooooong term illness.

I was almost continuously on chinese herbal teas during my catastrophe that led to The Severe Worsening.

Which is not to say that somebody else not captured by acute severe stress, might escape this worsening.

I might have escaped it. I might have just stayed mild, had the severe stress not occurred.

 

[Dysfunkion]

@andyguitar - I have no doubt the astragalus helped the nurses with their "chronic fatigue", but I don't think they had ME/CFS. I've been taking astragalus off and on, as needed, for almost a year I think. It has been very helpful with a post-infection fatigue which I think was from elevated IL-6 after repeated sinus infections - see this post - I'm guessing the nurses may have been dealing with something similar. Because astragalus has done nothing for my ME/CFS - limited energy envelope, PEM, etc.

This thread is what got me taking astragalus: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...il6-cause-muscle-weakness.92308/#post-2464358

We really really need a biomarker for ME/CFS!

Yeah from my experiences herbals tend to work best in groups, I can't think of one that did anything but support one thing but without the rest of the herbal team I'm taking won't get far. For me right now it's propolis, myrrh, cistus, cinnamon, and green tea. I also had to integrate one at a time too and I don't want to know what would happen if one was removed from the foundation. That said I do want to give astragalus a try on my current stack because it's one I haven't tried yet. Not saying it's not worth giving any one thing a try but integrating herbals is tricky and rough sometimes. I had to really fight with cistus for example but was better off when I got my body taking it every day.

That's the thing about this condition, you're never really "all better" you just find what supports things best and try to improve on it without crashing. But this doesn't solve the problem that under natural un-supplemented and un-herbal'd circumstances I wouldn't make it. The body fundamentally isn't doing something it should that normal diet can't help and in my case would even hurt me cause of how I'd react. My coworkers pretty much eat whatever and I know one that takes b12 sometimes, that's it and they still can't relate to the fatigue/immune dysfunction/brain fog. I consume an entire pharmacy and forest floor every day and still can't get half as far. lol

 

[andyguitar]

I have no doubt the astragalus helped the nurses with their "chronic fatigue", but I don't think they had ME/CFS.

It says "chronic fatigue syndrome" 3 times in the paper. I think the confusion here is that the researchers are looking at the fatigue symptoms of cfs and measuring that rather than all the symptoms of cfs.

 

[andyguitar]

I've been taking astragalus off and on, as needed, for almost a year I think.

The subjects here took 500mg twice a day for a month initially so maybe thats how to get the best result.

 

[Mary]

I agree, Mary, Astragalus is helpful, but it, alone, hasn't cured me, either.

I just wonder if hitting post-viral weakness right away with beneficial herbs, you can avoid the looooooong term illness.

btw, I am very very grateful that I stumbled across that post about astragalus helping with some sort of post-infectious fatigue, because it really did and still continues to help me a lot with that. So instead of dealing witih "just" PEM, I had this other awful fatigue on top of it as well, which would continue after the PEM had lifted. I've gotten very good at identifying several different types of fatigue!

And that's an interesting question - who knows? maybe, certainly worth a try. I don't want to discourage anyone from trying astragalus - it has helped me a lot, just not with ME/CFS.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

cinnamon

cinnamon is a heating food, fyi

(as are a number of foods I want to consume right now!). Lots of things we consume every single day are heating.

I sometimes revolt entirely on the food drama. Why? I feel we can't win this. Geographies also impose their local diet onto others. Of course the Tibetan wind diet, never recommends do not eat the Barley.

I could not survive on the food list called Cooling or Neutral Foods.

But we can also have other imbalances, besides being overheated. We can have WIND and we can have DAMPNESS: both are also common in the ME category.

Bitter Greens are great for cooling. But they produce alot of WIND, so I avoid them. My joints got alot better when I stopped eating salads

Excuse me, I am going to check on this watermelon in my refrigerator: the only cooling food I currently possess.

 

[Mary]

The subjects here took 500mg twice a day for a month initially so maybe thats how to get the best result.

I had good results with the astragalus almost immediately - seriously - within a day or 2 at the most of starting it, the post-infection fatigue would lift. It felt too good to be true - and I've taken it a lot ever since because I've needed it a lot ever since.

 

[Mary]

It says "chronic fatigue syndrome" 3 times in the paper. I think the confusion here is that the researchers are looking at the fatigue symptoms of cfs and measuring that rather than all the symptoms of cfs.

Exactly - this is why we need a biomarker. And the fatigue from the presumably IL-6, really was nothing like PEM. I don't think there's anything which compares to PEM. It's almost impossible to describe. Some people have said it feels like you're dying - you wonder how you can continue to live when you feel so horribly awful. It's just not fatigue.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

this is why we need a biomarker.

or at least, we need very clear PEM criteria, and they could have probably measured that with these nurses, but didn't.

Did we ever figure out what triple blind is?

 

[andyguitar]

Did we ever figure out what triple blind is?

Neither the subjects getting the real herb nor those getting the placebo nor those handing out the pills new what was what.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

new what was what.

LOL: that was funny

At least it's encouraging Iranians are looking at fatigue symptoms!

 

[Violeta]

Yeah from my experiences herbals tend to work best in groups, I can't think of one that did anything but support one thing but without the rest of the herbal team I'm taking won't get far. For me right now it's propolis, myrrh, cistus, cinnamon, and green tea. I also had to integrate one at a time too and I don't want to know what would happen if one was removed from the foundation. That said I do want to give astragalus a try on my current stack because it's one I haven't tried yet. Not saying it's not worth giving any one thing a try but integrating herbals is tricky and rough sometimes. I had to really fight with cistus for example but was better off when I got my body taking it every day.

That's the thing about this condition, you're never really "all better" you just find what supports things best and try to improve on it without crashing. But this doesn't solve the problem that under natural un-supplemented and un-herbal'd circumstances I wouldn't make it. The body fundamentally isn't doing something it should that normal diet can't help and in my case would even hurt me cause of how I'd react. My coworkers pretty much eat whatever and I know one that takes b12 sometimes, that's it and they still can't relate to the fatigue/immune dysfunction/brain fog. I consume an entire pharmacy and forest floor every day and still can't get half as far. lol

This is so true, Dysfunkion. I remember finding out that some people in Haiti are so poor they have to eat cakes made out of some kind of dirt, and I have all this food to chose from, I try to chose wisely, I cook my own food, and I can't get by without so many herbals and supplements. We used to go to the shopping mall, and I would see people in the little restaurants eating ice cream sundaes and I would wonder how they could get up and walk away and be okay. It's a situation that other people can not understand.

Ugh, lots more to talk about, Mary, so true about the fatigue. I'm too tired, though. Good night, praying no one has insomnia.

PS: I flossed!