Artesunate - Cheney dosage and benefits

[Chris]

Artesunate and XMRV

hi, Hope123; I think we will have to wait a while for someone to test Artesunate against XMRV, but if you go to my post #16 on this thread, you will find a quote from a review by Efferth that cites evidence that it has some action against HIV, so one can hope... You can access the full text from the title given--it is also posted on the Research Library thread, but that is only available to members with 100 posts.

Cheney has reported good success with a mix of Artesunate and Wormwood swish and spit--including reversal of diastolic dysfunction. His latest DVD talks about it as resetting the redox point so that viruses cannot replicate; so though there is as yet no direct evidence for action against XMRV, I think a modest hope might be realistic?
Best, Chris

 

[Chris]

PS

Hi, Hope123--forgot to add that Artesunate is available without prescription in the US--Google "Hepasunate". That is the form that Cheney has been using, according to reports from his patients. Just in case you decide you want to experiment a little. Chris

 

[Cloud]

I'm considering trying artesunate and have done a little research. Just curious, anyone here have an update on effectiveness? Also, does anyone have knowledge of it's liver toxicity potential? I have to be very careful with that.

Thanks.....ross

 

[Cloud]

Hi Bluebonnet,

I agree, one has to be careful about the dosage which is why I am following the small dose, spaced out over a week, and swish and spit. I did find a website that talked about the drug induced hepatitis, but in this case, the person was taking something in addition to the artesunate. I am not exactly sure what that means - just an FYI.

http://www.tropicalmedandhygienejrnl.net/article/S0035-9203(01)90024-0/abstract

Take care,

Maxine

Lol, great....a supplement that supposedly inhibits hepatitis b&c replication, but can cause drug induced hepatitis....Would appreciate input or links on this...thanks

 

[Hysterical Woman]

I'm considering trying artesunate and have done a little research. Just curious, anyone here have an update on effectiveness? Also, does anyone have knowledge of it's liver toxicity potential? I have to be very careful with that.

Thanks.....ross

Hi Ross,

I have been on artesunate 9 weeks and on inosine for longer than that. There has definitely been a decrease in swollen lymph glands for me. What is it doing in the long run? Not sure. I will be adding wormwood either next week or the week after.

And, yes, everyone needs to be careful with liver toxicity. I looked at that more closely a while back and thought it was acceptable considering the alternative of being very ill and doing nothing. I talked to my primary doc about looking at some liver blood work if I continue to take it.

There is also a book written about artesunate that I posted a link to a while back. Might be worth trying to obtain. Let me see if I can find the link again.



Take care,

HW

 

[Cloud]

Thanks HW...appreciate any help with that. Also thanks everyone for links and advice.

 

[Cloud]

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/358/17/1829

Thanks for this link Maxine. Here is a quote from the "Adverse Effects" section on that link......

"Toxic effects have been reported less frequently with the artemisinins than with other antimalarial agents.39 The most common toxic effects that have been identified are nausea, vomiting, anorexia, and dizziness; these are probably due, in many patients, to acute malaria rather than to the drugs.40 More serious toxic effects, including neutropenia, anemia, hemolysis, and elevated levels of liver enzymes, have been noted RARELY.41 Two cases of severe allergic reactions to oral artesunate have been reported, with an estimated risk of approximately 1 reaction per 3000 treatment"

This information makes it sound as though artemisinins have a very low level toxicty, especially on the liver....any comments appreciated

 

[minimus]

At my annual appointment with Cheney a few weeks ago, he reported that none of his patients have shown any signs of drug-induced hepatitis on his current regimen for artesunate/wormwood. The only case of hepatitis in his practice resulted when a patient who responded well clinically to artesunate decided to take it every day for months. That patient's hepatitis resolved when artesunate was discontinued.

His current protocol involves using artesunate 3 days per week (Tues, Thurs, Sat) and wormwood solution sublingually ("swish and spit") 3 days per week (Mon, Wed, Fri). He wants patiients to have a blood test every 4 weeks to monitor liver enzymes. But at my appointment he did not seem that concerned about liver toxicity given blood work from his patients to date. If you stick with his original protocol -- artesunate 2 days per week and wormwood solution sublingually 3 days per week -- he does not feel that regular blood tests to monitor liver enzymes are necessary. So you may want to only take artesunate twice per week. However, if for some reason you have liver function problems, you may want to discuss with a doctor or go in for routine blood work on a regular basis even if you are only taking artesunate twice per week.

 

[Hysterical Woman]

Minimus - thanks so much for posting this.

HW

 

[Cloud]

Yes, thank you Minimus.....coming straight from your experience with Cheney, I think this is solid advice. Artesunate has got to be easier on the liver than these anit-biotics I've been taking (Lyme&Co). I have done small doses of several different antibiotics and all cause some detox problems. A few years ago I decided to go big gun treatment because I wasn't getting anywhere with natural treatments....but, I think it's now time to return to lightweight stuff.

 

[Hysterical Woman]

Ross/Treatments

Hi again Ross,

Good luck with your treatments. Let us know if you decide to start the artesunate. Did you also see the thread about Dr. Judy being at Cheney's tomorrow and will give a live presentation?

Just an update with my own treatment - In the last few days I was able to shovel snow two days in a row for 15 min. each day without any backlash. Just a few months ago that would have put me in bed for 2 weeks.

Take care,

HW

 

[gu3vara]

Can anybody tell me which brand of wormwood I should purchase, there are a lot on iherb and not sure which one is the best

What is the dose of wormwood elixir you take on a given day?

Thx!

 

[Hysterical Woman]

Can anybody tell me which brand of wormwood I should purchase, there are a lot on iherb and not sure which one is the best

What is the dose of wormwood elixir you take on a given day?

Thx!

Hi gu3,

Welcome to the forums. I am lucky enough to have a friend who shares the wormwood that she orders with me. My friend uses 1/2 t. rinse and spit 3 x a week. I am extremely sensitive to stuff, so I only use 1/8 t. She says it is Mediherb Wormwood 1:5 and I believe this link will give you additional information.

http://www.standardprocess.com/display/MediHerbCatalog.spi?ID=334

Have you taken the wormwood before? Are you also considering artesunate.

Good Luck,

HW

 

[gu3vara]

Thx for the reply!

Yes I'm considering artesunate, it looks interesting. I totally trust Dr Cheney on this one, I think he's doing a lot to help CFS patients, unlike a doctor like Teitelbaum who sells a bunch of supplements without much science to back it up. The price is decent, compare to many treatments.

I just hope it don't interfere with the thyroid hormones that I'm taking

 

[Hysterical Woman]

Thx for the reply!

Yes I'm considering artesunate, it looks interesting. I totally trust Dr Cheney on this one, I think he's doing a lot to help CFS patients, unlike a doctor like Teitelbaum who sells a bunch of supplements without much science to back it up. The price is decent, compare to many treatments.

I just hope it don't interfere with the thyroid hormones that I'm taking

Hi again gu3,

Since the artesunate is frequently used in treating malaria, there should be a good bit of information about contraindications and/or drug interactions. It is always wise to a google search before you start anything new.

Good Luck,

Maxine

 

[Chris]

Artesunate risk

Hi, gu3; you can find some information in posts #16 and 31 of this thread, including a link that will take you to the full text of a good overview by Efferth, well worth reading. I can add a bit more: there is an essay by Gordi T, "Artemisinin derivatives: toxic for laboratory animals, safe for humans?" (PMID: 14757313 ) from 2004 the abstract of which points out that most of the toxicity found in animal studies is caused by "the slow release from oil-based intramuscular formulations....in contrast, oral intake of these compounds, which is by far the most common formulation used for treatment of malaria patients, results in rapid clearance of these drugs and is thus unlikely to cause any toxicity in human subjects. "

There is another very recent article by Efferth T, "Toxicity of the antimalarial artemisinin and its derivatives" (2010 Feb 16, PMID: 20158370 ) which states "Large clinical studies and meta-analyses did not show serious side effects" though animal studies do; " the lesson learned from animal and human studies is that long-term availability rather than short-term peak concentrations of artemisinins cause toxicity. " Artesunate is safer than artemisinin. If you go to PubMed, a public site, you can type in the PMID numbers in the "Search" window and get taken straight to the abstract; I do not have access to the full text of these two--maybe someone does?

The earlier Efferth essay states that Artesunate is cleared--rapidly--mostly by the CYP 2B6 part of P 450, and that drug intereactions can be expected, since this is a route for many drugs. Statins are likely to be interfered with , for instance, and heavy grapefruit or pomegranate use should be avoided while taking Artesunate. But given the rapid clearance, I think it should be possible to time the intake of potentially interacting drugs without too much trouble. You will have to check how any drugs you take are metabolized.

So avoid prolonged continuous use (the Cheney patient who had some trouble was not following his instructions) and there is always a risk, but so far Artesunate used as Cheney suggests seems pretty safe, and I posted the story of the 12 year old boy who was given 100 mg a day for 30 consecutive days without trouble above. I think taking a week off from time to time is a good idea--I don't know if that is part of Cheney's schedule or not, but I shall make it part of mine. Hope this is of some use, best wishes, Chris

 

[Cloud]

haven't been on this thread for some time....I'm about ready to go for it with the Artesunate and was wondering why some are suggesting taking wormwood together with it? Artesunate is derived from Arteminisin, which is derived from wormwood (I think, lol). So why take more than one of them? Also btw, not all wormwood has arteminisin. Thanks all

 

[Chris]

those artemisinins..

Hi, Cloud; I think the only reason to take a swish and spit of Wormwood on alternative days with Artesunate is because that is Cheney's protocol; he believes firmly in his Echo Terrain Maps, and a swish of wormwood apparently brings about a quick improvement in diastolic performance, at very lttle cost as it were. I am dubious myself --the evidence suggests that Artesunate is less toxic than straight wormwood, not more.

I also have to confess that though I did seem to be improving slowly until end January on this schedule, I have been having bad times since, and have quit Artesunate for the time being (I always intended to take a holiday from it periodically, but this one was unplanned). I have no idea whether Artesunate had anything to do with this crash--probably it did not--but it seemed safer to quit for the time being. I am having gut problems, and it is perfectly possible that some doses of Artesunate (a proven parasite killer) is just what I need at the moment--I just do not know. Sorry I cannot offer more or better advice!
Chris

 

[Cloud]

Hi, Cloud; I think the only reason to take a swish and spit of Wormwood on alternative days with Artesunate is because that is Cheney's protocol; he believes firmly in his Echo Terrain Maps, and a swish of wormwood apparently brings about a quick improvement in diastolic performance, at very lttle cost as it were. I am dubious myself --the evidence suggests that Artesunate is less toxic than straight wormwood, not more.

I also have to confess that though I did seem to be improving slowly until end January on this schedule, I have been having bad times since, and have quit Artesunate for the time being (I always intended to take a holiday from it periodically, but this one was unplanned). I have no idea whether Artesunate had anything to do with this crash--probably it did not--but it seemed safer to quit for the time being. I am having gut problems, and it is perfectly possible that some doses of Artesunate (a proven parasite killer) is just what I need at the moment--I just do not know. Sorry I cannot offer more or better advice!
Chris

Oh ok, thanks Chris.....I wasn't catching the swish part. That's really interesting that it affects diastolic function. I have some wormwood here I bought and have only tired once....that stuff has a really potent and ransid taste. You must be diluting it down. Also good to know that artesunate may be less toxic than Arteminisin. I need to ask my GP next week about starting it.
I hear ya about trouble discerning cause of the crash...That seems to be pretty common for us. Hope your doing better.

 

[citybug]

His current protocol involves using artesunate 3 days per week (Tues, Thurs, Sat) and wormwood solution sublingually ("swish and spit") 3 days per week (Mon, Wed, Fri). He wants patiients to have a blood test every 4 weeks to monitor liver enzymes. But at my appointment he did not seem that concerned about liver toxicity given blood work from his patients to date. If you stick with his original protocol -- artesunate 2 days per week and wormwood solution sublingually 3 days per week -- he does not feel that regular blood tests to monitor liver enzymes are necessary.

Hi Minimus, I'd just like to clarify, swish and spit refers to wormwood, but okay to swallow the artesunate?

I've tried artesunate on 2 days, swishing and forgetting to spit it out. Feel horribly achy all over the next day. Maybe finally getting a herx?