Artesunate - Cheney dosage and benefits

[Hep Advocate]

Hep advocate,

Thats good to hear your improvement. I have gone the opposite of u, i have artesunate in the cupboard i havent used but have gone the av way. famvir got me from a 3 to a 6 out of 10 and i will continue to use it at a low dose. now on valcyte at a low dose of 450mg a day with famvir for last 8 weeks, so far so good, now functioning at an 8 out of 10, i will continue this for another 8 months. I to have been exercising some as well. I might look into artesunate when i finish the valcyte to help maintain my improvements.

does it have specific effects to the herpes viruses like cmv/hhv6 ?
And is it a treatment that u will stay on or is it a set course like 12 months??
Correct me if im wrong, but does artesunate also have potential liver issues as well??

Thats a good response that u can go jogging, i hope u can keep it up.
thanks for sharing your experience,
cheers!!!

I only found relief from Artesunate when I followed Myhill's dosage: http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Chronic_infections_in_CFS#Using_Artesunate
which is much higher than Cheney's (4 times the Cheney dosage for my body weight). I had no improvement from the 50mg dosing. From the high level research that I did, it appears to fight cmv and hhv6:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/xydqhqe88lu6p7nu/
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/47/6/804.full.
I plan to stay on the treatment for another 2 weeks, take 2 weeks off to detox (I don't take any antioxidants while on it as I understand that counteracts the treatment) and then return for another 3 months and continue until I no longer require it. About 3 weeks ago, it appeared that my immune systems woke up as I had lymph node pain for several days. Following that, general energy has steadily gone up to the point that I don't require the amount of sleep that I did even before I got sick (before this I needed 8-9 average to feel rested. The past week, I have averaged 5 and felt fine. With regard to the liver issues/hepatitis, there does appear to be some risk but it appears to be with people who took very high doses and in the reports I have found, the subjects returned to normal after ceasing treatment (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5831a3.htm). Valcyte in my opinion is riskier as it is a known carcinogen as reported to me by my MD when I initially asked for it and is part of the write up on the drug in Canada:
http://www.rochecanada.com/fmfiles/...dPublicAdvisories/Valcyte/valcyteJune1HPE.pdf. (I would rather risk a reversible disease vs cancer). I would say I am probably a 9 right now. General energy is excellent. I still have some ill effects from exercise but is significantly reduced and it appears to be going down steadily. I try jogging once a week to see what happens. When I no longer feel the fatigue and chest tightness that exercise has historically created since getting ill, I will consider myself functionally cured. My goal is to eradicate this if at all possible at the lowest possible risk. So far, so good.

P.S. I have also adopted 3 years ago a low carbohydrate diet with no sugar. Other than that, I am currently taking no other supplements except some probiotics due to the fact that I am probably killing a lot of good bacteria also.

 

[heapsreal]

I only found relief from Artesunate when I followed Myhill's dosage: http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Chronic_infections_in_CFS#Using_Artesunate
which is much higher than Cheney's (4 times the Cheney dosage for my body weight). I had no improvement from the 50mg dosing. From the high level research that I did, it appears to fight cmv and hhv6:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/xydqhqe88lu6p7nu/
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/47/6/804.full.
I plan to stay on the treatment for another 2 weeks, take 2 weeks off to detox (I don't take any antioxidants while on it as I understand that counteracts the treatment) and then return for another 3 months and continue until I no longer require it. About 3 weeks ago, it appeared that my immune systems woke up as I had lymph node pain for several days. Following that, general energy has steadily gone up to the point that I don't require the amount of sleep that I did even before I got sick (before this I needed 8-9 average to feel rested. The past week, I have averaged 5 and felt fine. With regard to the liver issues/hepatitis, there does appear to be some risk but it appears to be with people who took very high doses and in the reports I have found, the subjects returned to normal after ceasing treatment (http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5831a3.htm). Valcyte in my opinion is riskier as it is a known carcinogen as reported to me by my MD when I initially asked for it and is part of the write up on the drug in Canada:
http://www.rochecanada.com/fmfiles/...dPublicAdvisories/Valcyte/valcyteJune1HPE.pdf. (I would rather risk a reversible disease vs cancer). I would say I am probably a 9 right now. General energy is excellent. I still have some ill effects from exercise but is significantly reduced and it appears to be going down steadily. I try jogging once a week to see what happens. When I no longer feel the fatigue and chest tightness that exercise has historically created since getting ill, I will consider myself functionally cured. My goal is to eradicate this if at all possible at the lowest possible risk. So far, so good.

P.S. I have also adopted 3 years ago a low carbohydrate diet with no sugar. Other than that, I am currently taking no other supplements except some probiotics due to the fact that I am probably killing a lot of good bacteria also.

Interesting. sounds like your making good progress.
Yes risks with valcyte, but im trying to take precautions with regular blood tests and using a low dose with famvir which is a safe antiviral. Was a study on valcyte comparing 450mg versus 900mg and the lower dose was almost as effective but with alot less side effects when used for cmv prevention. I went this way as i had made some good improvement with famvir and now hoping the valcyte cleans it up. Im using alot of antioxidants and some of which help protect the liver which i use to help protect the liver from antivirals. As u dont use antioxidants on artesunate, i would have to wait until i finish valcyte before considering artsenuate and going off anti-ox. Sounds like a good alternative to antivirals for others to try.

cheers!!!

 

[Carolyn C. Martin]

Two years ago I was diagnosed with CFS a few months after I ran my 2nd 5k. I got really sick and thought I was going to have to retire from my job. April of 2011 I started seeing Dr. Larry Sharp in Ft. Worth because he used the Cheney protocol. I was on the full protocol, but the two things that made the biggest difference for me was the cell signal factors which you can get from CFS Nutriceuticals and the artesunate listed in the original post that comes from Hong Kong. I take a 50mg tablet 6x a week and go off it once every 6 weeks. I make sure and get liver testing every 6 mo. In the beginning I was getting testing more often. Once we knew I was going to do ok with it, I went to the every 6 mo. testing. After I had been on the Cheney protocol for about 4 months, I started running again. I was amazed that I could feels so much better. I feel like this protocol saved my life.

 

[alice]

Two years ago I was diagnosed with CFS a few months after I ran my 2nd 5k. I got really sick and thought I was going to have to retire from my job. April of 2011 I started seeing Dr. Larry Sharp in Ft. Worth because he used the Cheney protocol. I was on the full protocol, but the two things that made the biggest difference for me was the cell signal factors which you can get from CFS Nutriceuticals and the artesunate listed in the original post that comes from Hong Kong. I take a 50mg tablet 6x a week and go off it once every 6 weeks. I make sure and get liver testing every 6 mo. In the beginning I was getting testing more often. Once we knew I was going to do ok with it, I went to the every 6 mo. testing. After I had been on the Cheney protocol for about 4 months, I started running again. I was amazed that I could feels so much better. I feel like this protocol saved my life.

Carolyn, could you please post the email address of CFS Nutriceuticals - can't seem to find a link to their website. Thanks.
alice

 

[Biarritz13]

No more users of this kind of treatment since 2012?

If someone is using it, could you please give some feedback?

 

[Biarritz13]

I just heard that @frederic83 is going to be our guinea pig, thank you .

Bump for everyone else!

 

[Biarritz13]

No one? Really?

 

[Little Bluestem]

@Theodore - artesunate (Arteminisin) is mentioned is this recent post:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/whats-finally-worked-for-me.45897/

 

[Biarritz13]

@Little Bluestem

I am aware of that thread, Artesunate and Arteminisin are not exactly the same but thank you

 

[Learner1]

This has been a very interesting thread. I'll share what I've experienced. Perhaps this has all evolved since this thread started...

I had IV artesunate along with high dose vitamin C weekly for 6 months along with chemo for stage 3 cancer 2 years ago. I am cancer free today.

Unfortunately, I have chronic fatigue. My doctor has supported methylation all along, and I cheated platinum from the chemo for 6 months. Then I had c. Pneumoniae, mycoplasma, and cytomegalovirus show up. We beat that back with a biofilm protocol and herbals.

I was still fatigued, so I did a PolyMVA mitochondrial protocol which tanked me. Turns out arsenic that had been hiding in my mitochondria, which became mobilized and was blocking my Krebs cycle.

Energy became a bit better after awhile as the arsenic came out of me, but then my liver numbers went crazy and I had chest pain. CT scan showed no cancer(!) but inflammation in my lungs. The cytomegalovirus is back with a vengeance. I was really sick with it over 20 years ago.

I'm currently getting IV artesunate once a week, along with oral Quicksilver artemesinin 4 days a week. I've seen other patients with Lyme and other viruses go through this protocol in the clinic I go to, with great results. I suppose they'll be monitoring my liver, but I haven't heard of any ill effects from anyone.

All I can say is it takes a really good doctor to figure out all the problems and solve them... I'm hoping I am finally getting to the light at the end of the long tunnel. My energy is finally improving.

I hear that the FDA is looking to crack down on the use of artesunate. I sure hope not.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Welcome to the forums, @Learner1. It sounds like you have been through a lot and learned a lot along the way. I too hope that you are getting to the light at the end of your long tunnel.

 

[Tofer]

Hello everybody! Wow! This thread was created in 2009. I found some positive posts about this medicine from 2010. Some people started to feel better, but what happened next? I assume a lot of things have changed since that time.

Are there anybody with HHV6 or HHV7 in this forum, who has tried to treat these viruses with Artesunate lately? Has anybody recovered from HHV6 or HHV7 with Artesunate?

 

[Learner1]

Not sure anyone can fully recover from one of these viruses...my understanding is they'll always be there, ready to pounce again if immune function is compromised.

That said, I know other patients who've been through artesunate treatment, in combination with other antiviral strategies and nutritional support who have beaten HHV-6 back to pretty much nil and gone on with their lives.

 

[keenly]

This has been a very interesting thread. I'll share what I've experienced. Perhaps this has all evolved since this thread started...

I had IV artesunate along with high dose vitamin C weekly for 6 months along with chemo for stage 3 cancer 2 years ago. I am cancer free today.

Unfortunately, I have chronic fatigue. My doctor has supported methylation all along, and I cheated platinum from the chemo for 6 months. Then I had c. Pneumoniae, mycoplasma, and cytomegalovirus show up. We beat that back with a biofilm protocol and herbals.

I was still fatigued, so I did a PolyMVA mitochondrial protocol which tanked me. Turns out arsenic that had been hiding in my mitochondria, which became mobilized and was blocking my Krebs cycle.

Energy became a bit better after awhile as the arsenic came out of me, but then my liver numbers went crazy and I had chest pain. CT scan showed no cancer(!) but inflammation in my lungs. The cytomegalovirus is back with a vengeance. I was really sick with it over 20 years ago.

I'm currently getting IV artesunate once a week, along with oral Quicksilver artemesinin 4 days a week. I've seen other patients with Lyme and other viruses go through this protocol in the clinic I go to, with great results. I suppose they'll be monitoring my liver, but I haven't heard of any ill effects from anyone.

All I can say is it takes a really good doctor to figure out all the problems and solve them... I'm hoping I am finally getting to the light at the end of the long tunnel. My energy is finally improving.

I hear that the FDA is looking to crack down on the use of artesunate. I sure hope not.

That means it helps people.

 

[Learner1]

Yes, it does help!

I sometimes think the FDA is in the way of everything I need to get well.

 

[SunMoonsStars]

I only found relief from Artesunate when I followed Myhill's dosage: http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Chronic_infections_in_CFS#Using_Artesunate
which is much higher than Cheney's (4 times the Cheney dosage for my body weight). I had no improvement from the 50mg dosing.

how long do people do the ART therapy at higher doses before weaning / stopping / or going to maintaining dose ? Dr Sarah says 100-200 2x a day then go to alternating days but it’s not clear how long to stay at higher dose or phases.

What is approximate time frame? Does she suggest days off on weekends like Cheney ?

Looking for any updates on Art protocols if anyone knows.
Thanks

 

[gbells]

I am a Cheney patient. I have not seen him since early in the year, prior to the XMRV study, but at that time he was recommending that I take one capsule of artesunate (sold as "hepasunate" by hepalin.com...can also be bought from Guilin Pharmaceuticals in China, but apparently is the subject of a tremendous amount of counterfeiting in Asia) on Tues & Thurs mornings and one capful of wormwood solution (from Mediherb) on Mon, Wed & Fri mornings. Don't take either on Sat. & Sun. He recommends that both be taken sublingually (not swallowed) out of some concern that artemisinins can cause drug-induced hepatitis if taken for a prolonged period. For me, sublingual means basically swishing the stuff around in my mouth and gargling with it and then spitting it out after a few minutes. Fair warning, the wormwood solution tastes truly foul and needs to be diluted with water to about 1/3 strength. I am not exactly sure why Cheney recommends taking these artemisinin-related compounds only 5 out of 7 days each week, but this has often been his protocol for treatments that he thinks have immune-modulating or anti-microbial properties. (For example, his protocol for Isoprinosine/Inosine used to be the same, 5 days on, 2 days off.)

I have found this protocol to be helpful in reducing fatigue and flu-like symptoms. It is not a miracle cure, of course, but I definitely feel more fatigued on Saturdays and Sundays when I am taking neither the artesunate nor the wormwood solution.

This thread is 14 years old but for what it's worth hepasunate is a supplement made from sweet wormwood that contains arteseminin which is different but related from the drug artesunate. The main difference is that that plant-derived arteseminin is not effective against HHV-6A while partially synthesized drug artesunate is effective against both HHV-6A and HHV-6B. 6B is the most common infection and people can be infected with any number of them including other viruses simultaneously (EBV, CMV).

So if you have HHV-6B arteseminin works to inhibit the virus.
But if you have HHV-6A then you need the drug.

Long term side effects of artesunate are: rash, nausea, vomiting, tremors and liver issues. It causes cardiovascular disturbances if overdosed.

Arteseminin caused one patient to have liver inflammation with chronic use. Other effects are unknown.

- Thomas Efferth and others, The Antiviral Activities of Artemisinin and Artesunate, Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 47, Issue 6, 15 September 2008, Pages 804–811, https://doi.org/10.1086/591195

-Luo, J., Zhang, Y., Wang, Y., Liu, Q., Li, J., He, H., Luo, Y., Huang, S., & Guo, X. (2021). Artesunate and Dihydroartemisinin Inhibit Rabies Virus Replication. Virologica Sinica, 36, 721–729. https://doi.org/10.1007/s12250-021-00349-z Artesunate and Dihydroartemisinin Inhibit Rabies Virus Replication (springer.com)