Arginine - a double edged sword

[stevesayshi]

I started taking arginine as part of a small amino stack to counter the rapid muscle wasting I am experiencing. It's really good at opening up blood vessels - it sounds silly but I can tell because it quiets the tinnitus. Yet it exacerbates my POTS problem. I often feel very moody and anxious after I have been on my feet for a while and this effect is tripled on arginine. I thought this was a PEM type thing but I realized it was due to poor circulation to the brain as it resolves rather fast on lying down.

Also, I saw this
... OK I can't find the specific link now ... but basically continuous use of arginine could cause oxidative stress due to its influence on nitric oxide. And I wonder, as I do with so many supplements, am I doing more long term damage to myself by trying this?

 

[Martial]

I don't know about oxidative stress issues, however if you have any active viruses they say that arginine is contridicted because it will feed them, good for bacterial infections like lyme, bartonella, mycoplasma, etc though.

Some also state that you do not want too much arginine if you are having issues with excess ammonia, but there is not too much studies done on this, supposedly it makes ammonia issues worse.

 

[alex3619]

These issues with arginine have been known for at least 21 years. I was having this conversation in 1993. Arginine can boost nitric oxide. Increased nitric oxide will only boost oxidative stress if its converted to peroxynitrite. Increased nitric oxide will however increase vasodilation, which is good for our brains if we have vasoconstriction, but bad for OI. Herpes viruses love arginine. Its the Lemon Rule all over again.

 

[heapsreal]

Don't know if u have looked into okg or hmb to help with muscle wasting as an alternative to using arginine. Otherwise just try and increase total protein intake with help of protein drinks etc. 1 gram per pound of bodyweight is a common number used by bodybuilders.

 

[Hip]

This article suggests that if you are a good methylator, arginine may promote herpes simplex virus replication; whereas if you are a bad methylator, arginine may inhibit herpes simplex virus replication.

 

[stevesayshi]

Oh, wow. Thanks all. Did not know about the arginine-HSV connection. Why does everything have to be so damned complicated?
http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/54035-control-epstein-barr-virus-reactivation-with-arginine/
I guess I should switch to lysine? Or since my EBV IgG levels are off the charts, use a little arginine in the AM and then a few doses of lysine throughout the day? But don't tell me - lysine feeds some other co-infection I probably have. I am interested in the vasodilators because I think hypercoagulation plays a big role for me. Will take the blood tests Monday... Sadly the naturopath I am seeing as my "last resort" doesn't want to do testing for specific pathogens, she just wants to start blasting my blood with ozone. Would much prefer to know what I am up against and target it with proven treatments.

Heapsreal, those look very interesting. Thank you.

 

[Wayne]

it sounds silly but I can tell because it quiets the tinnitus.

I was wondering if you're still finding success with using arginine to quiet your tinnitus. -- Thanks!​

 

[Ema]

Int J Mol Med. 2009 Apr;23(4):495-9.
Antiviral effect of arginine against herpes simplex virus type 1.
Naito T1, Irie H, Tsujimoto K, Ikeda K, Arakawa T, Koyama AH.
Author information

Abstract
We investigated the effects of arginine on the multiplication of herpes simplex virus type 1 (HSV-1) and the potential of arginine as an antiherpetic agent. Arginine suppressed the growth of HSV-1 concentration-dependently. Inhibition of HSV-1 by arginine leveled off at 50-60 mM, although the higher concentration was not suitable as an antiviral agent due to cytotoxicity. 'Time of addition' experiments revealed that arginine was particularly effective when added within 6 h post-infection (h p.i.), suggesting that the reagent sensitive step is in the early stages of the infection. A one-step growth curve of HSV-1 in the presence of 30 mM arginine revealed that: i) the latent period was significantly extended, ii) the rate of formation of progeny infectious virus decreased and iii) the final yield of progeny virus decreased to 1%. The addition of arginine at 8 h p.i., after the completion of viral DNA replication in the virus multiplication, allowed the normal formation of progeny virus in the subsequent 4 h, confirming that arginine does not directly interfere with the formation of progeny infectious virus. In addition, arginine also inhibits several RNA viruses.