Anyone want to go on the Wahls Protocol with me?

[Anjikun]

Hello,

I have been diagnosed with CFS and have also had many MS-like symptoms. One of my worst CFS symptoms (in addition to fatigue) at this point is lack of ability to focus. A few years ago I was actually diagnosed with adult ADHD, but I really think it's part of the whole CFS thing.

I would like to try the Wahls diet protocol, but for me compliance is tough, because I get tired so easily and that makes me want to eat the wrong things. Right now I'm eating a pretty poor diet (I used to eat low-carb Paleo, but I've fallen very far from that wagon!) and I would like to try going on level 2 or 3 of the Wahls protocol (or my unique combination of level 2 and 3) basically cold-turkey.

I feel like a need a "buddy" or a small support group to give myself the best chance of succeeding. Is anyone on here interested in doing this with me? We could communicate on this thread or start a communication thread or group somewhere else (FB, G+ or wherever). The idea would be to check in with each other daily to stay motivated and exchange tips/tricks etc.

Also, if anyone is interested but hasn't read the book yet I could wait to start. I live in Montreal and it's still freakishly cold here. It may be better for me to hold off on a major diet overhaul until it starts warming up a bit!

Also, please let me know if this thread should be in a different place. I didn't see "diet" in the list of treatments in the Treatments section, so I put it here.

Mary

 

[Ambrosia_angel]

Sounds really good. Especially that she's had muscle weakness which is my main problem. Her story sounds really amazing! I'd love to do it!

what's involved? Do I have to buy the book to find the protocol or diet? I've done a low carb, dairy free, fruit free(etc) candida diet but not paleo.

I like this idea it should happen more often in the community and we can all record our results together a bit like what's happening with methylation but with diet stuff.

 

[Anjikun]

Hi Ambrosia_angel,

So glad to hear that someone else is interested in trying this! The book she wrote "the Wahl's Protocol" is really interesting in the sense that she talks a lot about how many of our chronic diseases are really the same fundamental biochemical issues gone awry in different ways. I have no doubt whatsoever that this diet will greatly improve my CFS systems, if only I can do it!

The book also includes 3 different levels. Level one is basically a really cleaned up diet with loads of vegetables, level two is a strict paleo diet with loads of vegetables and level three is more of a ketogenic diet with loads of vegetables. I'm simplifying, of course. She advocates organ meats liver, seaweed and a few other things. There is also a vegetarian version of the diet, although it's not what she recommends.

It's of course not necessary to buy the book. I am planning to go back through it and make a list of what's involved at different levels, so I guess it would be OK to post that here. I do think the book is well worth reading, as it explains why the recommendations are so important and talks about what's going wrong at the cellular level in chronic disease states.

What is your diet like now? Are you up for trying to make a cold turkey change, or more interested in going gradually? My problem with going gradually is that I don't seem able to comply when I try it that way. That is the main reason I want to get some people together who want to go through the process together--if not it's just too easy to give up when the going gets tough!

Do you think it would be good to just converse on this thread, or take it to another platform?

Let me know whatever thoughts you have about this!

Mary

 

[Dreambirdie]

There's already a thread about this. If you do a search you should find it.
Madietodd and xchocoholic and me and others contributed a whole bunch to it at one point.

 

[maddietod]

I have Wahls' Mitochondria book, a did the diet from that, last year. I had a lot of trouble figuring out how much food I was supposed to eat. Hopefully her new book is a little clearer about that.

I got good results in mental clarity and energy, but I fell apart over Thanksgiving/Christmas, and didn't go back on because it's a ton of food to eat every day. I'm very interested in this thread!

 

[Ambrosia_angel]

@Anjikun
I'd prefer cold turkey. That's what I did with my other diet. Buy the foods look at the recipes and start it one day. I guess it would be good here as others can read and keep up with what's going on if they want to join.

Around the end of December I had a complete diet change and went on a no fruit, low carb(no rice or wheat. Only quinoa, millet & buckwheat), no dairy, no sugar, high veg with several supplements also. Lasted strictly for about a month but I'm still on low sugar, no fruit though. Everything else I eat is still fairly low in dose but I am eating carbs.

@Dreambirdie could you post the thread? Can't find it?

@madietodd my rule with food is only eat because you have to and not because you want to. I think portions is very individual as its differentiates so much between a man, women or child. It also depends on if your prone to weight gain or not. I think your should do as much as you feel is going to benefit you and your health. It'd be cool if you joined us

 

[Dreambirdie]

@Ambrosia_angel Here's one of the threads.
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/wahls-diet-mitochondria.25900/

 

[maddietod]

I wonder if this would work well as a group? Then right from the start you could have, e.g, threads for recipes, how people started, rants (!), whatever.

 

[Daffodil]

I read that dr. wahls did a 1 year study and put several MS patients on her diet. Their fatigue levels were a little better but I do not think there were any improvements in their brain MRI's. I wonder if dr. wahl's even had MS - maybe she had some kind of severe, bizarre food allergy?

the diet is probably a good diet, though

 

[Anjikun]

Hi everyone!

@Dreambirdie thanks for letting me know about the other thread. Now that someone has inserted a link here to that we can go back and see what worked/didn't work before.

@madietodd, you know I wasn't even aware she had another book. I've watched her mitochondria lecture on Youtube though. Her recent book gives good information on what to eat/not eat and there are three different levels to the diet. I'm glad to hear that you got good results in mental clarity/energy the last time you tried something like this. Those are the two things that I need the most help with. I've done low carb/keto before and my mental clarity/focus was much better but my physical energy was low. Now I am eating pretty high carb and my physical energy is not too bad, but my mental clarity is completely out the window. I keep forgetting I'm doing something right in the middle of doing it! I also keep forgetting what people ask me to do right after they ask. It's terrible, as I have two boys to take care of. I also need to find a job or go back to freelancing to get some money coming in, but as things stands now there's no way I will be able to focus on anything long enough to make progress on that front.

@Ambrosia_angel, glad you like the idea of cold turkey. I like that idea too, but I feel like I can only succeed at that if I have other people on board with me!

@Daffodil, Dr. Wahls gives more information about her own situation in her new book. She still has MS based on MRIs showing cervical spinal lesions, although her level of functioning is much, much higher than it was. Her book does a really good job though of breaking down the notion that different chronic diseases are separate, unrelated entities. She brings everything down to the cellular level and explains how mitochondrial dysfunction is at the root of a wide variety of ailments. Very interesting stuff!

I can go back through the book and summarize the different levels (which I was planning to do anyway) and post it here if any of you think you would really be interested in doing this together as kind of a little support group. Also, as I mentioned before, I'm not in a huge hurry to start so if anyone wants to take time to read the book before committing they could do that. I would prefer to wait to get a little group that is really committed because I think that would be the best conditions for success!

 

[maddietod]

I eat pretty close to Wahls already in a general way, but I can't eat nearly the quantities she requires (to get the nutrition).

I make bone broth from pastured chickens, eat liver and seaweed, and am very aware of colors now. My starches are mostly sweet potato and squashes, with rice sometimes. I eat eggs, as I don't seem to react to them and I think they're an excellent food.

I'm also using potato starch (see the resistant starch thread if curious), which is having profound effects for some people here. So I'm in no way doing pure Wahls.

 

[Dreambirdie]

I can go back through the book and summarize the different levels (which I was planning to do anyway) and post it here if any of you think you would really be interested in doing this together as kind of a little support group.

Yes! PLEASE DO THIS. I would love a summary. I am so burnt on reading health books (after 30+ years of doing that) that I can't convince myself to read anymore of them.

I was eating a modified Paleo diet for several years, before trying the Wahls diet. But, like Madie, I wasn't able to force feed myself a mountain of vegetables each day. It was just way too much food. And I don't like eating when I am not hungry. It feels contrary to the body's real needs.

Like you, I need some carbos to maintain energy. I can't not eat occasional (gluten free) oatmeal or rice, and when I don't have those I make sure to get butternut squash or jewel yams. Without some carbos at each meal, I have a gnawing hunger for several hours afterwards.

One detrimental side effect I noticed, when eating more strictly Paleo, was that I didn't get enough fiber, and ended up getting constipation, as well as symptoms of diverticulosis. Not good! I now make sure to eat at least a couple tablespoons of chia seeds each day.

I would be interested in giving the Wahls diet another shot to see what else I can learn about it, and what other good effects I can glean from it. So count me in on any support group you start.

 

[Anjikun]

Hi Dreambirdie,

I can so relate to being burnt out on reading health books, especially given that the different authors often make conflicting claims. I made an exception for the Wahls book because she really seems for real to me, and also it's not about weight loss. Sure I could stand to lose a few pounds, but what I really need is an increase in mental focus/energy. The fact that she created this diet for herself based on what she found in the literature really speaks to me.

So I will definitely go back and make the summary I mentioned and post it here. I need to do that anyway because I can't remember the details based on one reading of the book anyway. I swear my mental functioning is so low right now I can't get much of anything straight these days without writing it down.

As for the mountains of food, I can relate to that as well. Recently I bought a Vitamix, so that will be a big part of my strategy for getting more vegetables in (green smoothies and blended vegetable soups).

As for carbs, I have the same impression as you in terms of needing carbs for physical energy. However, in my case, moderate carb does not seem to work for me because I have sort of a carb addiction thing going on. Anytime I start eating any amounts of grain whatsoever I end up bingeing on some high-carb thing. The only diet I have been able to maintain for any period of time has been a really low carb diet. The good thing about the Wahls Protocol though is that there are three different levels. I will probably do something between level 2 and level 3, whereas level 1, or something between level 1 and level 2, might be the ticket for you.

You will have a better understanding once I post the summary. I promise to do it before Monday!

 

[Anjikun]

Hi again,

I've realized that I don't feel comfortable summarizing the three levels and posting it here (or elsewhere, if we end up taking our little group elsewhere) without permission from Dr. Wahls' team. I submitted a request for permission through her website, along with a request about using her name in the title of a support group (if we do decide to take it somewhere else, and want a title for it).

So, if they want to give me permission I will summarize the three levels in detail (what to eat/not to eat for each level) and post them!

 

[Dreambirdie]

Soounds good, @Anjikun

 

[Daffodil]

kale chips are an excellent way to get a few cups of veggies in, I find. they really taste better than potato chips and you can eat a lot and not get full. they are easy to make too. I just chop up some kale, spray with olive oil, sprinkle with salt, and put it in the oven until crunchy.

I think wahls recommends 9 cups of veggies a day..i still haven't been able to eat more than 6 at most. maybe if I bought a vitimax, blended 9 cups in a drink and drank that? :-/ probably would have to plug my nose...I hate thick liquids.

juicing was better but too much work to clean up for me

 

[Anjikun]

Hi Daffodil. Yes, getting the veggies in is definitely the focus of this diet! Her recommendation is 9 cups of veg and fruit: 3 cups of dark leafy greens tightly packed, 3 cups of sulfur-rich and 3 cups of deeply coloured.

I am thinking I will try to get the 3 cups of sulfur-rich at breakfast as a stir-fry (did that this morning with Brussels sprouts and green onions), the greens in a smoothie at lunch and the deeply coloured as a salad and/or soup for dinner.

The kale chips is also an excellent idea. I definitely want to try that!

As for blending up 9 cups of veggies in one smoothie, I wouldn't try it ;-))), especially if you hate thick liquids! The green smoothies I have been making are often greens, avocado, cucumber and/or fruit + water. That's relatively thick because of the avocado, but if you leave that out it's much thinner. I find collard greens in a smoothie is better than Kale (although according to Wahls kale is a bit more nutritionally dense).

Honestly, having purchased the Vitamix is one reason I really want to give this diet a really good go. As you probably know they are ridiculously expensive, but I bought it specifically so I would have a better shot at this diet. And at this point my functioning (especially mental functioning) is so incredibly low, I just have to do something!

 

[hopeful2]

I'm wondering if you got the kindle version of the book or the hardcover. I was thinking of purchasing this book in the kindle edition but then I was reading reviews where people said the kindle version made the tables impossible to read and also the table of contents wasn't clickable like it is in most kindle books so you can't go to the table of contents and click on a specific chapter and be taken there.

 

[Anjikun]

I got the Kindle version and I REALLY regret it. I will probably buy the non-Kindle version soon. I would say for this type of book, definitely get the regular print edition.

 

[hopeful2]

That's good to know. I decided to go with the hardcover. I should have it on Monday. Doing a search online, I did find someone who had briefly outlined the 3 different levels of the plan. I'm intrigued enough by what I've read to want to buy the book and try it out.