Anyone experiences inversion of circadian rythm?

[FMMM1]

There was going to be a trial of suramin for cfs but i dont see any news.Are you sure that Ron Davis did test suramin in the nanoneedle?

Yes i.e. Ron Davis tested suramin in the nano-needle and it returned the signal to normal.

Problem is Bayer, company which manufacturers suramin for WHO, doesn't want to put it through the (expensive) approval process i.e. for autism - possibly the trial you are referring to is an autism trial (by Robert Naviaux?). I assume issue is the fact that the patent has expired (50 years ago?).

Check out Ron's talks at OMF Conferences etc.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Hope78
I gave up on normal sleep patterns almost a year ago, and I feel a lot better. My 'schedule' now is so schizy that I dont even try to explain it to friends, who have helpful input like, "Just take a walk, join an aerobics class, meditate more, meditate less, spend more time hanging out with friends, get back to inline skating, come to more parties, let's g out to dinner, do volunteer work for a worthy cause .....". I could go on and on, but I know most if not all of you have already been there, heard that.

At any rate, I'm with @Wolfcub .... this is one of those times when giving in is a lot better than fighting an impossible, draining, and ultimately losing battle.

See what works for you then go with it, and bugger the begrudgers.

 

[Wolfcub]

I think maybe our need to fit in with "normal" humans' ideas of what our circadian rhythms ought to be like, can cause unneccessary stress. (What is normal exactly anyway?)
There are some people -even those who are not ill, who don't operate on a 24 hour circadian rhythm. And there is nothing wrong with them.
The only possible problematic issue would be trying to fit in with the "herd". Now unfortunately, the herd is in charge of when working hours start and end, and many healthcare appointments are also set up within this pattern.
So that's when it gets us.
Leave us alone to our own rhythms, and we can do very well.
Some people are partially nocturnal anyway, and it can be really hurtful to them to try to force their natural rhythms into a different shape, even if what they are doesn't sound ideal to this new-fangled idea that "good" people sleep at 10 and wake up at 6.
There are even trends to moving that getting-up time to 4.30 or 5.....and then these goodies go and hit the gym! (no-one did that when I was a kid unless they had no choice.)

Also the concept of how many hours' sleep we ought to be getting. There's an issue that is moveable. Sometimes we need to sleep more, sometimes less. I think it's good if we can allow ourselves to listen to what we need.

Anyone who needs to go to work, though, especially if they aren't feeling too great anyway -yes it can all be a bit difficult.

 

[southwestforests]

Even as a teen several decades before getting/being diagnosed with CFS there were 1 or 2 nights a month where I just flat would not sleep, or at a minimum it would be 2am before my body was at all ready to sleep.
And that continued all through my working years.

During my working years, sometimes I had a day job in retail, sometimes a night job in telecommunications, or as a security guard.
So of course that didn't help establish and maintain long-term circadian stability.

Now my sleep cycle/circadian rhythm is pretty much a roll of the dice.
No matter what time of day or night there is pretty much a 50/50 chance of finding me awake or asleep.

I'll sleep in "bite sized portions" about as often as sleeping for several hours straight.

Melatonin - tried that for a while, roll of the dice effects there too.
Sometimes I was falling asleep on my feet within an hour after taking a tablet.
Which is a really odd relationship, I didn't think its mechanics worked on an immediate basis.
At other times I could take double doses for a couple days and the effect was the same as if I'd swallowed air.

But then, my body, my Dad's, his sister, their dad, have had history of sometimes wacky reactions to medications.

And then there's the thing of for example, do 2 loads of laundry in the morning, with required trip to laundromat; have a fatigue flare, nap for the rest of the day, wake up about suppertime, and of course be too awake to sleep during the night.
Then about the time sunrise comes ...

 

[southwestforests]

Oh! This just surfaced from the murky depths of memory,
https://www.sciencealert.com/humans-used-to-sleep-in-two-shifts-maybe-we-should-again

Humans Used to Sleep in Two Shifts, And Maybe We Should Do It Again

MELINDA JACKSON AND SIOBHAN BANKS
4 APR 2018

Around a third of the population have trouble sleeping, including difficulties maintaining sleep throughout the night.
While nighttime awakenings are distressing for most sufferers, there is some evidence from our recent past that suggests this period of wakefulness occurring between two separate sleep periods was the norm.

Throughout history, there have been numerous accounts of segmented sleep, from medical texts, to court records and diaries, and even in African and South American tribes, with a common reference to "first" and "second" sleep.
In Charles Dickens' Barnaby Rudge (1840), he writes:

"He knew this, even in the horror with which he started from his first sleep, and threw up the window to dispel it by the presence of some object, beyond the room, which had not been, as it were, the witness of his dream."​

Anthropologists have found evidence that during preindustrial Europe, bi-modal sleeping was considered the norm. Sleep onset was determined not by a set bedtime, but by whether there were things to do.

another reference from a few years earlier,
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-16964783

The myth of the eight-hour sleep

By Stephanie Hegarty BBC World Service

• 22 February 2012

... Ekirch found that references to the first and second sleep started to disappear during the late 17th Century. This started among the urban upper classes in northern Europe and over the course of the next 200 years filtered down to the rest of Western society.
By the 1920s the idea of a first and second sleep had receded entirely from our social consciousness.
He attributes the initial shift to improvements in street lighting, domestic lighting and a surge in coffee houses - which were sometimes open all night. As the night became a place for legitimate activity and as that activity increased, the length of time people could dedicate to rest dwindled.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Wolfcub
If anyone has the temerity to ask, I tell them that I run on Martian time. That seems to jam their mental gears, and I can almost invariably change the subject before they work it out.

 

[southwestforests]

I tell them that I run on Martian time.

Well ...
Actually ...

Are We Running On Martian Time?

It is really very curious. In the absence of all external time cues, the human body slowly shifts its internal clock from earth time (24-hour days) to Martian time (24.9-hour days). Could we all have been Martians in the deep, distant past? This thought was triggered by the recent surmises that earth life might have originated on Mars and been brought here by an immigrant meteorite.
(Packard, Gabriel; "Martian Day," New Scientist, p. 54, October 10, 1998.)

https://www.science-frontiers.com/sf122/sf122p06.htm

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@southwestforests
You're right on !!! My husband pointed out to me, when my weird sleep/wake patterns got the best of me, that going back to Colonial times here, sleep was in two parts, with a small meal in between.

It was only when the rise of the railroads necessitated specific work/travel times, along with the onset of factory jobs, that the rigid pattern we currently struggle under developed.

Bad cess to it.

 

[valentinelynx]

I've been going to bed at the time most people get up. It's been slipping badly again: now up to 8-9 AM. I sleep until about 7 PM. Of course, I'm not asleep the whole time. If there are things I have to do, I just do them and go back to bed when I can. It bothers my husband a lot. Because I've not been working, there's nothing to keep me on a "normal" schedule, and apparently my body thinks this is normal.