Anyone else feel the worst first thing in the morning?

cigana

Senior Member
Messages
1,094
Likes
935
Location
UK
Feeling worse in the morning can be a symptom of sleep apnea or UARS, both of which can be difficult to diagnose correctly. A hospital sleep study which measures RERA's is the best way.
 

Hufsamor

Senior Member
Messages
2,637
Likes
10,122
Location
Norway
Ive just joined a Facebook group for me/cfs people using activity watches.

The idea is of to keep an eye on your heart beat or minute, and also to keep an eye on the stress in your body. I haven’t quite got the hang on what exactly the watch measure when it measures stress, but it seems to be a combination of heigh heart beat and low heart rate variation.

It seems a lot of people (me/cfs people) have an incredible high stress level at night. Their bodies are resting better awake than at sleep.
 

Husband of

Senior Member
Messages
235
Likes
386
Ive just joined a Facebook group for me/cfs people using activity watches.

The idea is of to keep an eye on your heart beat or minute, and also to keep an eye on the stress in your body. I haven’t quite got the hang on what exactly the watch measure when it measures stress, but it seems to be a combination of heigh heart beat and low heart rate variation.

It seems a lot of people (me/cfs people) have an incredible high stress level at night. Their bodies are resting better awake than at sleep.
Maybe that is the case for people who are sick too? I know last time I had a virus I had highbheart rate or blood pressure or both at night
 

Woof!

Senior Member
Messages
523
Likes
1,394
I'm much better in the a.m., and fall off rapidly about 3:00 p.m. I can't talk on the phone after that time, for example, and often I'll go into the bedroom. Not to sleep or watch TV, but to read to help rejuvenate myself.
Ditto.

That's not to say I don't feel beat-up and achy every morning when I awake. My morning routine is designed to ease me into the day so I have some productive hours ahead of me. When my alarm goes off at 5:10, the radio turns on and I wake (if I'm not already awake) to my favorite NPR station. I straighten out my achy body and gradually sit up to take my thyroid meds (which have to be taken on an empty stomach an hour before eating). I let the dogs out and then go back to bed for an hour (or more, if I've been dealing with insomnia) of gentle under-the-covers stretching and perhaps a little more shut-eye. Only then can I get up and more around (and yes, head for the coffee pot).

For me, having a morning routine helps. Knowing there will be days where I can't follow the routine also helps. Go with the flow...and don't forget to smile first thing every morning, no matter how you feel. Genuine, relaxed smiles drop high blood pressure. They relax our shoulder muscles and raise our happy endorphin levels. They also stimulate our diaphragm to take a natural, relaxed breath. In this way, giving a smile to the world-at-large empowers us to take the next step and get ready for the day. :):):)
 

Judee

Senior Member
Messages
3,255
Likes
9,063
Location
Great Lakes
Their bodies are resting better awake than at sleep.
I suspect that's because of rolling PEM that the article at the top of this thread talks about: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...y-finally-spring-for-an-hr-hrv-monitor.83152/

If I do ART (aggressive rest therapy) for about 3 days in a row then my body battery numbers do go up while I sleep but if I've been doing too much or have been too stressed, they hardly budge over night and sometimes even go down while I sleep. :(
 

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,148
Likes
7,289
Hi......@Woof. I was wondering if your new Avocado vegan matress has made any difference to you life....and if so, what.

I'm generally having my best energy in the a.m. I never used to be a morning person, but time seems to have changed that aspect of my life. Also, wanting to beat the sun in the summer.

@Judee, there was a time when I could fall asleep about 4:00 a.m., get up about 9:00 a.m., and was able to make it through the day. Oddly enough, since my last major fall (still bedridden from it), I awaken early, but manage to get at least 6 hrs. of decent sleep. Things do keep changing, so be hopeful.

Has anyone else tried melatonin in the a.m.? I understand that it's also supposed to help bones, and in spite of everything, I didn't realize that a bone strength vitamin formula vitamin, etc., should contain some amount of phosphorous. Now this can be taken as Calcium phosphorous or anything indicating that it is included in the formula. It doesn't work for me at night....but l mg. in the a.m.??

Hip recently told me this. Please watch your bones....I know it's not a great subject, but try life without relying on them!

I had a report yesterday that my l. hip pelvic bones have severe osteoporosis, and the right has osteoporosis. I've been on Fosamax since it came out....what 30-35 yrs. ago? It hasn't done much for me....and you couldn't find a healthier diet if you tried. In other words, I could never heal from hip replacement surgery, if needed, nor probably knee surgeries either. Calcium alone is not the answer and yes, I've been aware of that for years and years. I didn't know about phosphorous though.....although I get plenty of it in my food. Speaking of which, only 20=50% of what we eat is truly absorbed in the intestines. Don't overdo it, that's not good for say, kidneys....please read about it.

I have every indication of being one of those selected for osteoporosis. Very light bones, pale skin (and serious skin cancers), many broken bones for about 15 yrs. now....fair eyes and genetically, one could say that I was last in line that week. Not complaining....just trying to warn you good folks. Take it seriously.

I'm awaiting my new Avocado mattress with mixed feelings. I've tried so many in the past, but this mattress is actually sinking in the middle from too much use. (Plus I spilled a mug of tea on it this a.m.)

Yes, I simply don't answer the phone any longer....it's way too tiring. Oh, of course I'll answer for family and friends, but that's it. However, everyone who matters knows not to call me after that time. Yours, Lenora.
 

Hufsamor

Senior Member
Messages
2,637
Likes
10,122
Location
Norway
I suspect that's because of rolling PEM that the article at the top of this thread talks about: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...y-finally-spring-for-an-hr-hrv-monitor.83152/

If I do ART (aggressive rest therapy) for about 3 days in a row then my body battery numbers do go up while I sleep but if I've been doing too much or have been too stressed, they hardly budge over night and sometimes even go down while I sleep. :(
@Judee
Thanks for link.
I remembered the thread and have been searching for it, but couldn’t find it.
Some super useful stuff there:thumbsup:
 

Stretched

Senior Member
Messages
680
Likes
836
Location
U.S. Atlanta
I feel worst (fatigue, lightheaded, generally not good) first thing in the morning when I wake up. I usually sleep around 8-10 hours per night. Never suffered from insomnia as many do, I always had the opposite of sleeping too much. I usually wake up and just have to lie in bed for an hour before I feel ready to start the day. This is unaffected by how much activity I have done the day before so not PEM related. I have noticed if I sleep 6 or 7 hours I wake up feeling more awake but then often have to nap later in the day as I get sleepy.

Anyone else have this? That their first couple of hours when they wake up are their worst? Any ideas what the underlying cause could be?

I was thinking about investing in an Oura ring to see the quality of my sleep and als those.
Definitely feel worse in the mornings and it takes a couple of hours to come to. IMO, our poor sleep is symptomatic of being up regulated, our immune systems being in the fight/fight state.

In my case I am producing a lot of adrenaline constantly which I can feel, especially at night. It causes repeated awakening as well as IBS symptoms, mimicking anxiety if it’s not also anxiety.

Benzos definitely calm all this which is why they are so addictive. So what’s better - pragmatically, to suffer less ‘fatigue‘ and be dependent on benzos or to be without addictive risks and suffer the systemic dysfunctions?
 

Woof!

Senior Member
Messages
523
Likes
1,394
In my case I am producing a lot of adrenaline constantly which I can feel, especially at night. It causes repeated awakening as well as IBS symptoms, mimicking anxiety if it’s not also anxiety.

Benzos definitely calm all this which is why they are so addictive. So what’s better - pragmatically, to suffer less ‘fatigue‘ and be dependent on benzos or to be without addictive risks and suffer the systemic dysfunctions?
I've always said adrenaline is my drug of choice. After experiencing temporary paralysis (twice) I can't stand sitting around when there are things to do, and frankly, too much sitting is bad for my bones and painful. Adrenaline is an evil mistress, however, and it takes a skilled hand to rein her in when she zooms in and out at the wrong time. I love my mid-morning adrenaline boost, since it allows for a few productive hours. Anyone who knows me knows, tho, knows I have a lot of trouble letting the boost go before I get depleted. The art is finding a balance between doing things when I can and recuperating (like a battery on a charger) when I can't. I dedicate the later half of each day (and sometimes more) to recharging, avoiding people and projects until I'm fully recharged. I just have to.

If I don't get the balance right, the insomnia at night is horrible. Adrenaline all night and that anxiety-that-isn't-quite-anxiety feeling you describe.

For me, moderating my activity hour-by-hour is a lot better than reaching for addictive medication. If I try hard, and if I am strict about reining in my adrenaline queen during the day, she is a lot less likely to wake me repeatedly at night. It isn't always easy, but I am still the one in control. If I was to get addicted to a foreign substance, like benzos, they (and not I) would be in control and it would be like taking downers to counter stimulants. Not good. Just MHO from where I sit.
 

leokitten

Senior Member
Messages
1,489
Likes
3,820
Location
U.S.
Yes normally first thing in the morning after waking up I feel the absolute worst ME symptoms - combination of super hungover feeling, hit by a truck body and muscle pain like I'm recovering from an accident, and like I'm coming down with the flu. Takes until midday or sometimes afternoon for it to improve. At night slowly starts getting worse again until I go to sleep but doesn't feel as bad as during the morning.
 
Last edited:

Woof!

Senior Member
Messages
523
Likes
1,394
For everyone who feels worse upon waking, and who knows well that hit-by-a-truck feeling, don't overlook one of the most common reasons for this - an allergy to dustmites!

Our beds and mattresses are loaded with the little suckers, and a simple anti-dustmite mattress cover and pillow cover goes A LONG way toward promoting restorative sleep. Your immune system won't have to fight these buggies all night long.

I love this brand:
https://www.amazon.com/AllerEase-Wa...t-dustmite+mattress+cover,aps,135&sr=8-4&th=1

Changing your blankets to the kind that don't provide good habitat for dustmites will also help, as will sleeping near a room HEPA filter, washing curtains and drapes and getting rid of carpeting. When I did all of this, it was a life-changer!
 

lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,148
Likes
7,289
Hello @Woof!.....Right, I think allergies to environmental things are seriously underestimated in our quest for health. HEPA filters, for both furnace and air filters (one can be bought for as little as $100 today, compared to the size and cost of just a few years ago), are almost a necessity (the filters are cheaper). Most climates contain allergens of some sort or another and dust mites are something we all have.

The air purifiers are perfect gifts if you don't need other things first. Family members can go in together to provide the needed amount. Yours, Lenora.
 

cigana

Senior Member
Messages
1,094
Likes
935
Location
UK
Ive just joined a Facebook group for me/cfs people using activity watches.

The idea is of to keep an eye on your heart beat or minute, and also to keep an eye on the stress in your body. I haven’t quite got the hang on what exactly the watch measure when it measures stress, but it seems to be a combination of heigh heart beat and low heart rate variation.

It seems a lot of people (me/cfs people) have an incredible high stress level at night. Their bodies are resting better awake than at sleep.
Spikes in heart rate during the night is a sign of sleep disorders like UARS and sleep apnea, and is in fact one of the ways of diagnosing these diseases. They are very common disorders in PWME, and can cause dreadful daytime fatigue and brainfog.