Soundthealarm21
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That's interesting. Not that I have any intention of going, but what specifically do they do? What kinds of medicine, IV, etc do they give people?
Any opinions on Sponaugle Wellness Institute for Lyme treatment ?
- Thread starter beaverfury
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That's interesting. Not that I have any intention of going, but what specifically do they do? What kinds of medicine, IV, etc do they give people?
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This clinic claims to have a secret potion, contents refuse to reveal, which break-up the biofilm. Also, claim brain -kill formulae. One of claimed nurses, Patient advisor, who meets with patients, because Doc is too busy, isn't a nurse but is medically untrained other than by Sponaugle.
JBB
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I know someone who went here. I asked him about the treatment and this is what I gathered:
-They have three phases. Detox > Kill > Detox.
-The detox phase includes IV vitamins / minerals, glutathione, and also others which are "top secret". Maybe because they are illegal??! Or maybe he is a very clever marketer! I think this is normally about a month each side of the kill phase.
-The kill phase is hydrogen peroxide, Vit C (pro-oxidant and / prodrug to H2O2 I think from research) and antibiotics such as rocephin / levaquin.
-My friend was there for three months and did two months of kill phase but didn't feel any significant improvement. Other patients were there longer and it comes down to individual patients.
Interested to hear of others experience.
Best wishes,
JBB
-They have three phases. Detox > Kill > Detox.
-The detox phase includes IV vitamins / minerals, glutathione, and also others which are "top secret". Maybe because they are illegal??! Or maybe he is a very clever marketer! I think this is normally about a month each side of the kill phase.
-The kill phase is hydrogen peroxide, Vit C (pro-oxidant and / prodrug to H2O2 I think from research) and antibiotics such as rocephin / levaquin.
-My friend was there for three months and did two months of kill phase but didn't feel any significant improvement. Other patients were there longer and it comes down to individual patients.
Interested to hear of others experience.
Best wishes,
JBB
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This place charges a lot , not for services rendered but by the week ($3000.00). It does not cure TBD but diagnoses all patients with mold. One treatment fits all.
JBB
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@Always Hope very sorry you saw no improvement there. Out of the people who were there with you how many DID see improvement that you kept in contact with?
The place uses a lot of words I see as "quackery alerts".
"Wellness" just for a start, followed rapidly by "detox" and in the interests of conserving precious energy, I know I really don't really need to read any more, or bother about details.
I reckon anything which uses "testimonials" is suspect - especially when they appear to be direct quotes from the manual!
edited to add; I went back to find the exact testimonial which did appear to be "quoting from the maunal", but all I'm getting now are videos. sorry.
I found typed out ones before...
"Wellness" just for a start, followed rapidly by "detox" and in the interests of conserving precious energy, I know I really don't really need to read any more, or bother about details.
I reckon anything which uses "testimonials" is suspect - especially when they appear to be direct quotes from the manual!
edited to add; I went back to find the exact testimonial which did appear to be "quoting from the maunal", but all I'm getting now are videos. sorry.
I found typed out ones before...
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JBB
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@peggy-sue there is certainly nothing "quackish" about "detox" although I can make no judgements on the effectiveness of this clinic.
Here is a brief explanation on why all Lyme docs believe detoxing is important.
1. When spirochetes are killed their outer surface proteins (lipoproteins) cause extreme activation of the immune system. These are also called blebs.
2. This raises pro inflammatory cytokines such as IL-1, IL-6 typically and TNF-alpha.
3. These are the cytokines which cause "sickness syndrome" or will make people feel ill as well as causing inflammation and many other compounding issues.
So by "detoxing" one of the important components is removing the blebs so the immune system is not so over activated. This reduces the Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction which if extremely severe can even cause permanent damage. Glutathione is used as an antioxidant in many Lyme treatments to reduce these "flares" of symptoms. It has also been observed the Lyme outer surface proteins cause 50-500 times more immune activation than other bacteria such as E. Coli. So there is really nothing controversial about detox in Lyme disease. The only other illness other than Lyme and co to cause Jarisch-Herxheimer reactions is Syphilis, another spirochete bacterium
Best wishes,
JBB
Here is a brief explanation on why all Lyme docs believe detoxing is important.
1. When spirochetes are killed their outer surface proteins (lipoproteins) cause extreme activation of the immune system. These are also called blebs.
2. This raises pro inflammatory cytokines such as IL-1, IL-6 typically and TNF-alpha.
3. These are the cytokines which cause "sickness syndrome" or will make people feel ill as well as causing inflammation and many other compounding issues.
So by "detoxing" one of the important components is removing the blebs so the immune system is not so over activated. This reduces the Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction which if extremely severe can even cause permanent damage. Glutathione is used as an antioxidant in many Lyme treatments to reduce these "flares" of symptoms. It has also been observed the Lyme outer surface proteins cause 50-500 times more immune activation than other bacteria such as E. Coli. So there is really nothing controversial about detox in Lyme disease. The only other illness other than Lyme and co to cause Jarisch-Herxheimer reactions is Syphilis, another spirochete bacterium
Best wishes,
JBB
All that has been proven, scientifically, beyond all reasonable doubt?
And have the "detoxing" agents been proven to work, specifically for these lipoproteins?
Don't worry - I don't need an answer. I have a completely closed brain about this sort of thing.
And have the "detoxing" agents been proven to work, specifically for these lipoproteins?
Don't worry - I don't need an answer. I have a completely closed brain about this sort of thing.
Esther12
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Sorry for hearing about your trouble @Always Hope . thanks for letting us know and best wishes for the future.
JBB
Senior Member
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@peggy-sue Yes. I have taken the information out of Dr Horowitz's book see pp.420,421,198 (very much in my words so could be inaccuracies). Once you read some and research yourself around this area it is very obvious and scientific. Of course detox is a rather loose unscientific term and should perhaps be "detoxifying" X / Y.
For example the liver makes glutathione in some form or other to so toxins (dead pathogens, environmental toxins) can be eliminated. The liver has at least two detoxification pathways. This is taught in med school. Quick study for you on this...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1749210
The lymph system is a network of vessels in the body which move dead cells / pathogens etc so they can be eliminated from the body.
So maybe you just misunderstood the meaning of "detox" and the implications. Anyway back to the forum topic and I won't deviate with any further replies about detox etc.
Best wishes,
JBB
For example the liver makes glutathione in some form or other to so toxins (dead pathogens, environmental toxins) can be eliminated. The liver has at least two detoxification pathways. This is taught in med school. Quick study for you on this...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1749210
The lymph system is a network of vessels in the body which move dead cells / pathogens etc so they can be eliminated from the body.
So maybe you just misunderstood the meaning of "detox" and the implications. Anyway back to the forum topic and I won't deviate with any further replies about detox etc.
Best wishes,
JBB
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