Another view of adrenal fatigue

heapsreal

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If u like to get really deep into the physiology of this then it will be of interest but its quite full on.

What is Adrenal Fatigue at its core? Many website will tell you it is an adrenal gland function problem that is best assayed by a salivary adrenal stress panel. I wont and I do not. The cause of adrenal fatigue is a brain injury at the hypothalamus all caused by bad signaling. My Adrenal Fatigue Rx is best called Metabolic Neurosurgery: It is all about energy and energy utilization that allows for perfect signaling of environmental signals. When your energy is bad your signaling falls off a cliff. The ASI is just like a gauge on a car. It tells you some info but it does not tell you why it is happening. How we understand adrenal dysfunction in 2012 has radically changed because of a relatively new science called neurohumoral-immunology. What does this mean? It means adrenal fatigue at its core is a brain illness and not an adrenal gland problem.

here is the rest http://www.jackkruse.com/brain-gut-16-adrenal-fatigue-rx/
 

heapsreal

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An outline of his treatment protocol.

Treatments: Adaptogens Maca, Rhodiola, Holy Basil, Black cohosh root, licorice, Fo-ti root
Supplements: CoEnQ10 (ubiquinol) 400mgs to 1200 mgs, phosphatidylserine and choline, DHEA and pregnenolone replacement (all based upon lab values)
Treat with high dose B complex and vitamin C replacement to help liver detoxification phase 1 and phase 2 pathways
Introduction of Mind body meditation techniques in my view is critical to getting better.
Big thirst is a big symptom. Treat with hydration and salt tabs.
Astragalus (Qi-tonic or TA-65)
Melatonin
Progesterone
Complete darkness for sleep
Bioidentical cortisol (hydrocortisone)
Oxytocin (natural secretion is better than exogenous forms)
Colostrum
Replace vitamin D to minimum 50 ng/dl
GABA replacement
L-theanine (copiously found in green tea)
Avoid caffeine, chocolate, ephedra, guarana, kola nut, and prescription stimulants. (Ritalin)
For severe cases check Zinc and Copper levels as well. Fe levels and Hg levels in long standing cases
Expose yourself to low light situations as soon as the sun sets before bed
Pearls for a Adrenal optimization:
Sleep by 10 PM
Sleep in until 8:00 AM
Avoid over training
Do the things you enjoy
Avoid coffee or other caffeinated beverages; steep your tea!
Eat early within thirty minutes of rising
Have a glass of water in the morning with 1/2 to 1 teaspoon of salt
Avoid grains such as bread
Avoid starchy foods such as potato
Mind body mastery/ Laugh several times a day
Take vitamin C, pantothenic acid, magnesium, and vitamin E (Mixed tocophrenols)
Take pregnenolone and DHEA, as needed
Avoid becoming fatigued
Avoid high glycemic fruits
Never skip breakfast ever
 
Oh boy. I agree that adrenal fatigue (or at least my adrenal fatigue) is a hypothalmus/pituitary signalling problem. And that the ASI shows there is a problem, but not why. Rich Vank said that it was due to lack of glutathione in those organs. The way to fix it is to increase glutathione by restoring methylation function.

Next, I don't agree with this person's treatment plan, which is really wacky. It looks like a regular sort of adrenal treatment plan, but it has supps that would both increase cortisol and decrease cortisol. This is like trying to drive a car with the foot on the gas and the brake at the same time. And then it pretty much includes the kitchen sink.

The reason why it might work for some people is that it includes a high dose B complex.

I'm going with what Rich said.
 

heapsreal

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I think he uses supps to increase and decrease cortisol at certain times as its cortisol rhythm thats whacky in alot of us not just low cortisol all the time. I think the list of treatments is just a list, i dont think its a specific prescription and to take all of them. From what i have seen from his other writting is that certain supps are used for specific indications and abnormalities he finds. I think u have to read the rest of his stuff to get a clear idea of what he is about. His background as a neurosurgeon as well as changing himself from poor health to being healthy and studying these concepts is how he has come up with his theories. I need to sit down and read it more but it is hard to get your head around. There is some stuff on his website about antioxidants and glutathione which would be similar to rich's work as well as expanding on hormones, different body rhythms, diet, leptin sensitivity, insulin sensitivity, paleo diet, brain gut connection. His concepts are alot broader then rich's theory and take alot more into consideration. Im yet to read all dr kruses info and his theories are quite deep.
 

anne_likes_red

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I think he uses supps to increase and decrease cortisol at certain times as its cortisol rhythm thats whacky in alot of us not just low cortisol all the time. I think the list of treatments is just a list, i dont think its a specific prescription and to take all of them. From what i have seen from his other writting is that certain supps are used for specific indications and abnormalities he finds. I think u have to read the rest of his stuff to get a clear idea of what he is about. His background as a neurosurgeon as well as changing himself from poor health to being healthy and studying these concepts is how he has come up with his theories. I need to sit down and read it more but it is hard to get your head around. There is some stuff on his website about antioxidants and glutathione which would be similar to rich's work as well as expanding on hormones, different body rhythms, diet, leptin sensitivity, insulin sensitivity, paleo diet, brain gut connection. His concepts are alot broader then rich's theory and take alot more into consideration. Im yet to read all dr kruses info and his theories are quite deep.
His concepts, as far as I can tell, are his interpretation of how we're working constantly against our evolutionary biology and this is undermining our brain health and immunity. The way he lays out his interpretations is frustrating. Have found him to be a nice guy, but online manner and presentation of ideas kind of off putting (which is a shame).
He considers adaptogenic herbs a last option for adrenals.
Attention to light cycles, cold adaptation, leptin rx first. Cold adaptation will raise glutathione on its own, and NK cells, and lots more. You can find studies. (Or you can get cold....taking care and using caution...and see how you feel.)
HTH
Anne.
 

anne_likes_red

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PS Heaps Kruse is big on cycloset for resetting circadian rhythms. I haven't used it, Found the other measures (blue blocking 4 hours prior to sleep, leptin reset and cold..cold..cold over winter) to be enough to make good improvement. Did you mean to PM you about cycloset a while back though. Look into it, see whatcha think :)
 

Beyond

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An outline of his treatment protocol.

Treatments: Adaptogens Maca, Rhodiola, Holy Basil, Black cohosh root, licorice, Fo-ti root
Supplements: CoEnQ10 (ubiquinol) 400mgs to 1200 mgs, phosphatidylserine and choline, DHEA and pregnenolone replacement (all based upon lab values)
Treat with high dose B complex and vitamin C replacement to help liver detoxification phase 1 and phase 2 pathways
Introduction of Mind body meditation techniques in my view is critical to getting better.
Big thirst is a big symptom. Treat with hydration and salt tabs.
Astragalus (Qi-tonic or TA-65)
Melatonin
Progesterone
Complete darkness for sleep
Bioidentical cortisol (hydrocortisone)
Oxytocin (natural secretion is better than exogenous forms)
Colostrum
Replace vitamin D to minimum 50 ng/dl
GABA replacement
L-theanine (copiously found in green tea)
Avoid caffeine, chocolate, ephedra, guarana, kola nut, and prescription stimulants. (Ritalin)
For severe cases check Zinc and Copper levels as well. Fe levels and Hg levels in long standing cases
Expose yourself to low light situations as soon as the sun sets before bed
Pearls for a Adrenal optimization:
Sleep by 10 PM
Sleep in until 8:00 AM
Avoid over training
Do the things you enjoy
Avoid coffee or other caffeinated beverages; steep your tea!
Eat early within thirty minutes of rising
Have a glass of water in the morning with 1/2 to 1 teaspoon of salt
Avoid grains such as bread
Avoid starchy foods such as potato
Mind body mastery/ Laugh several times a day
Take vitamin C, pantothenic acid, magnesium, and vitamin E (Mixed tocophrenols)
Take pregnenolone and DHEA, as needed
Avoid becoming fatigued
Avoid high glycemic fruits
Never skip breakfast ever
Thats some good load of $$$ and commitment for our part, but we can do it!
 

Beyond

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Oh add to that the Leaky Gut treatment, which its a league of supplements and procedures on its own :rofl:

Colostrum, it looks very very promising, for the gut as well.

Restoring the Qi looks important!! Great info overall, hard to fail knowing all this.

Maca its good stuff especially for mood and virility ;)
 

Ninan

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Oh boy. I agree that adrenal fatigue (or at least my adrenal fatigue) is a hypothalmus/pituitary signalling problem. And that the ASI shows there is a problem, but not why. Rich Vank said that it was due to lack of glutathione in those organs. The way to fix it is to increase glutathione by restoring methylation function.
If adrenal fatigue is a hypothalamus/pituitary signaling problem, is there anything that might help without taxing the adrenals more (if that is the problem)? I can't get my B12 protocol working more than a week at a time now (then my zinc and C needs go through the roof and I don't tolerate more than 200 mgs of C) and without it I get very ill. Could for example modafinil help? I'm looking into stimulants but it seems most of them are bad for adrenals. I even had a bad experience with ALCAR today.
 

Ninan

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Thanks btw, @heapsreal This explained a lot! Finally starting to understand how my newly discovered adrenal issues are related to other symptoms, and B12. Love it when some of the pieces finally fit together.
 
If adrenal fatigue is a hypothalamus/pituitary signaling problem, is there anything that might help without taxing the adrenals more (if that is the problem)? I can't get my B12 protocol working more than a week at a time now (then my zinc and C needs go through the roof and I don't tolerate more than 200 mgs of C) and without it I get very ill. Could for example modafinil help? I'm looking into stimulants but it seems most of them are bad for adrenals. I even had a bad experience with ALCAR today.
I've also had trouble tolerating the traditional stimulants used to treat adrenal fatigue. Everything is too overstimulating. Things like adrenal cortex extract, DHEA, etc.

When my adrenals were really trashed in a period of stress, I did have good luck with Dr. Wilsons' Adrenal Rebuilder. Like 1/8 to 1/4 of a pill max. This supplement is made from animal glands, but the active hormones are removed. What remains is the nutrients used by those glands.

Other than that, I replace the electrolytes which are lost - magnesium and potassium. If I go through a bad patch I will also be craving salt and need to replace that.

My adrenals have recovered somewhat, from basically zero to 50% of normal.

I believe this is due to either getting my last mercury filling out or methylation treatment or a little of both. This is has taken about 3 years or so to happen.

Note that I am taking extremely low amounts of methylation supplements as I don't tolerate higher amounts. 20 mcg of methylcobalamin, 4 mcg of adenosylcobalamin and 1/64 of one pill of Holistic Health All in One multi twice a week.

It seems ridiculous compared to the megadoses some people take, but it's working for me. I definitely feel better with them than without them.

My suggestion would be to lower the amounts in your B12 protocol until you don't need to increase zinc and vitamin C.
 

Ninan

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My suggestion would be to lower the amounts in your B12 protocol
I've been getting B12 only from liver, very small amounts, 50 grams of pork liver a week. And I still started craving zink and more C after only two weeks. My need for C has gone up over time so I suspect I'm depleting something else which leads to bigger need of C. Nickel? But I'll try even lower and see what happens.

According to hair mineral testing at least, I have no issues with mercury, though I have some fillings.

I'll try the Rebuilder, thanks. Still not sure this is feasable without B12 effect. I get so sick, can't keep fluids and my brain gets so sensitive it steals all my energy. Can't wall or talk. I'm doing the OAT now to see if I can find out what's wrong.
 
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Ninan

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Note that I am taking extremely low amounts of methylation supplements as I don't tolerate higher amounts. 20 mcg of methylcobalamin, 4 mcg of adenosylcobalamin and 1/64 of one pill of Holistic Health All in One multi twice a week.
Do you take the cobalamins every day or twice a week as the multi? Are they sublinguals?

I might be getting too much folate from the liver. That might deplete stuff.
 
I've been getting B12 only from liver, very small amounts, 50 grams of pork liver a week. And I still started craving zink and more C after only two weeks. My need for C has gone up over time so I suspect I'm depleting something else which leads to bigger need of C. Nickel? But I'll try even lower and see what happens.

According to hair mineral testing at least, I have no issues with mercury, though I have some fillings.

I'll try the Rebuilder, thanks. Still not sure this is feasable without B12 effect. I get so sick, can't keep fluids and my brain gets so sensitive it steals all my energy. Can't wall or talk. I'm doing the OAT now to see if I can find out what's wrong.
Which hair mineral test? Did you interpret it using Cutler's counting rules? The idea is to look and see if you have disordered mineral status, not the actual level of minerals per se.

If you still have fillings, I would suspect mercury toxicity issues.

Is the pork liver organic/grass fed?

Have you tried cutting it back to see if there is a level which is sustainable?
 

Ninan

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Which hair mineral test? Did you interpret it using Cutler's counting rules? The idea is to look and see if you have disordered mineral status, not the actual level of minerals per se.
I used Trace Elements Inc, not sure what interpretation they use.

If you still have fillings, I would suspect mercury toxicity issues.
I'm saving up to do the NutrEval test, I guess that might tell me more? I thought about doing the ONE test instead but I see that doesn't show heavy metals.

Is the pork liver organic/grass fed?
Yes, that's the only meat I eat.

Have you tried cutting it back to see if there is a level which is sustainable?
Not with the whole protocol. I'll try that and see. I have probably been taking too much B12 and folate for too long.

Now I'm wondering if my amazing effect from B12/methylation is actually a strong, beneficial effect on my adrenals. It comes 50 hours after taking B12, which is not really normal, it's very obvious and what it does besides giving me energy is letting me keep my fluids so OI is much better. I realize now that all the stuff I've needed to increase to keep the effect are important for adrenal function: Magnesium, zink and vitamin C. Maybe that's it, or a big part of it? And maybe that's why I crave more and more C: My adrenals are healing? Not sure if I'm out biking (as we say here, means you've no idea what you're talking about) but maybe?

FullSizeRender kopia.jpg
FullSizeRender.jpg
 

Ninan

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Btw, about minerals: My best ways of getting enough potassium and magnesium without sabotaging my gut are:

1) using them as deodorant. Either magnesium chloride or potassium gluconate with a tiny amount of water. Put it in my armpits a few times a day. Helps a lot and not the worst deodorant I've tried.

2) Before I shower I cover my arms and legs with the same substances, either magnesium or potassium. I let it sit for about 20 minutes and then shower. This (and rectal administration of magnesium) are the most efficient methods I've tried.
 
I used Trace Elements Inc, not sure what interpretation they use.


I'm saving up to do the NutrEval test, I guess that might tell me more? I thought about doing the ONE test instead but I see that doesn't show heavy metals.


Yes, that's the only meat I eat.


Not with the whole protocol. I'll try that and see. I have probably been taking too much B12 and folate for too long.

Now I'm wondering if my amazing effect from B12/methylation is actually a strong, beneficial effect on my adrenals. It comes 50 hours after taking B12, which is not really normal, it's very obvious and what it does besides giving me energy is letting me keep my fluids so OI is much better. I realize now that all the stuff I've needed to increase to keep the effect are important for adrenal function: Magnesium, zink and vitamin C. Maybe that's it, or a big part of it? And maybe that's why I crave more and more C: My adrenals are healing? Not sure if I'm out biking (as we say here, means you've no idea what you're talking about) but maybe?

View attachment 15977 View attachment 15978
Magnesium, zinc and vitamin C are also part of the "Core Four" supplements for Cutler's mercury protocol. I don't know if that means anything or if it's just a coincidence. If it helps you keep fluids then I would lean towards the idea that it's helping the adrenals too.

The Nutreval will only show blood levels of toxic metals, i.e. current exposures. So if you still have fillings, mercury might show up.

You can try asking on the Frequent Dose Chelation Yahoo group if they can interpret the Trace Elements test. Normally they do the Doctors Data toxic and essential elements test. I have links to Cutler's info, the test, and the group in my signature link.