Amphetamine is an instant, but short lasting, cure

[heapsreal]

@Hip i also think wellbutrin has some dopamine raising qualities also. With a quick google you can also find wellbutrin has anti inflammatory effects on tnf, i dont know if this is from the increase in NE or dopamine or seperate effect again.

 

[Hip]

Hip that could be a clue. Doing so much and put the nicotine receptors out of order is not a good idea in my opion. The a7 receptor is also important in the immune system.

Interesting point, but I don't know if it Wellbutrin's nicotinic antagonism can help explain why Wellbutrin just suddenly stopped working for me after two weeks, though.

The two weeks when Wellbutrin did work for me were incredible. My ME/CFS just seemed vanquished. I did not once read the PR forum during that two week period (even though normally I read and post at PR for at least a couple of hours a day), because I found that when you escape from the ME/CFS condition, the world of ME/CFS no longer seems to hold any interest or relevance for you. You automatically start focusing on other things; that's what I noticed happens.

I would hope that all of us here might one day escape from the ME/CFS condition, where we no longer have any need to read ME/CFS related stuff.

@Hip i also think wellbutrin has some dopamine raising qualities also. With a quick google you can also find wellbutrin has anti inflammatory effects on tnf, i dont know if this is from the increase in NE or dopamine or seperate effect again.

Thanks for bringing that up. I read about the anti-inflammatory effects of Wellbutrin: this study found that Wellbutrin profoundly lowers levels of IL-1beta, TNF-alpha and IFN-gamma, in a mouse LPS-induced inflammation model.

I think this ability of Wellbutrin to lower IL-1beta and TNF-alpha could provide an explanation of how this drug abolished most of my ME/CFS fatigue and cognitive symptoms: if you look at it from the perspective of Michael VanElzakker's sickness behavior model of ME/CFS, in which he proposes that the inflammatory cytokines IL-1beta, TNF-alpha and IL-6, arising from a vagus nerve infection, are causing sickness behavior and thereby ME/CFS, then Wellbutrin's action of potently lowering IL-1beta and TNF-alpha could explain how this drug put me into near remission from ME/CFS, albeit for just two weeks.

But again, why would Wellbutrin provide near remission in this way, and then suddenly stop working after two weeks? I can't figure it out.

 

[xchocoholic]

Can we really use studies with regard to brain chemicals since brain damage or inflammation is going to vary per patient and yet this isn't part of these studies ?

I'm confused as to why some chemicals work and then stop working but others work for years on end.

For instance, I've been taking klonopin for myoclonus for about 20 years now with a 4 year break. It still works everytime. Kow.

Interesting discussion. Tx .. x

 

[heapsreal]

Interesting point, but I don't know if it Wellbutrin's nicotinic antagonism can help explain why Wellbutrin just suddenly stopped working for me after two weeks, though.

The two weeks when Wellbutrin did work for me were incredible. My ME/CFS just seemed vanquished. I did not once read the PR forum during that two week period (even though normally I read and post at PR for at least a couple of hours a day), because I found that when you escape from the ME/CFS condition, the world of ME/CFS no longer seems to hold any interest or relevance for you. You automatically start focusing on other things; that's what I noticed happens.

I would hope that all of us here might one day escape from the ME/CFS condition, where we no longer have any need to read ME/CFS related stuff.




Thanks for bringing that up. I read about the anti-inflammatory effects of Wellbutrin: this study found that Wellbutrin profoundly lowers levels of IL-1beta, TNF-alpha and IFN-gamma, in a mouse LPS-induced inflammation model.

I think this ability of Wellbutrin to lower IL-1beta and TNF-alpha could provide an explanation of how this drug abolished most of my ME/CFS fatigue and cognitive symptoms: if you look at it from the perspective of Michael VanElzakker's sickness behavior model of ME/CFS, in which he proposes that the inflammatory cytokines IL-1beta, TNF-alpha and IL-6, arising from a vagus nerve infection, are causing sickness behavior and thereby ME/CFS, then Wellbutrin's action of potently lowering IL-1beta and TNF-alpha could explain how this drug put me into near remission from ME/CFS, albeit for just two weeks.

But again, why would Wellbutrin provide near remission in this way, and then suddenly stop working after two weeks? I can't figure it out.

I wonder if its from the dopamine NE mechanism thats doing this or some other seperate factor, but i think other tyype of antidepressants have shown different anti inflammatory mechanisms with cytokines etc?

 

[Hip]

I wonder if its from the dopamine NE mechanism thats doing this

I've got some Cymbalta (duloxetine), which is a SNRI (serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor), so if it's the norepinephrine which was creating the benefit, then Cymbalta might also work. I will have to it out.

 

[misskatniss]

Wowza. Was interested in the subject as the psy gave me Wellbutrin (but I didn´t take it)... Wanted to read an online paper on antidepressants and CFS. (meta-study) What the heck? They want 89 Dollars for 24 hours of access!!! Madness

 

[MeSci]

Wowza. Was interested in the subject as the psy gave me Wellbutrin (but I didn´t take it)... Wanted to read an online paper on antidepressants and CFS. (meta-study) What the heck? They want 89 Dollars for 24 hours of access!!! Madness

That is ridiculous. What paper is it? There are often ways to find out the content of a paper, for example other sites talking about it. And if it was a few years ago, there could be newer papers citing/quoting from it.

 

[misskatniss]

That one: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1517/14656560902988510

 

[MeSci]

That one: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.1517/14656560902988510

Not much time at the moment but after a bit of searching I found the same abstract in PubMed which also listed 3 citing articles - look under "Cited by 3 PubMed Central articles" on this page.

 

[acrosstheveil]

i need something to get through the work day. I feel like i'm going to pass out . even started drinking coffee with espresso shots. I am still exhuasted and then I can't sleep at night because of the caffeine. Think I might ask the doc for wellbutrin. any other options besides amphetamines?

 

[DaisyRuth]

I think this is a completely irresponsible recommendation.

My symptoms were initially triggered during a period of my life when I was frequently doing amphetamines.

I'm assuming that it completely trashed my adrenals which started a cascade of health problems that persist to this day.

That's similar to my experience although I cant decide if I started the amphetamine use BECAUSE of the fatigue or if it made my illness worse. Either way, amphetamine is not the way to go.

 

[misskatniss]

Could be both, Daisy. And I am still glad for every Bupropion pill which I did NOT take. Which is, all of them.

 

[DaisyRuth]

I went the street route unfortunately and took street amphet... horrendous crash, even though I actually had energy at the time. I sometimes get tempted to order myself some from the internet, or go and see the people I know who could get me the illegal stuff.. but honestly, it's not worth it is it? A few days energy and then a month or so of less than zero energy? Nah!