Alpha lipoic acid may help restore circadian rhythms, help with sleep

[Mary]

Lipoic acid helps restore, synchronize the 'biological clock' (phys.org)

Lipoic acid entrains the hepatic circadian clock and lipid metabolic proteins that have been desynchronized with advanced age - PMC (nih.gov)

I stumbled across ALA's potential effects on sleep after reading about how @msf used it (along with Chinese skullcap) to help prevent PEM in this thread. In the thread he talks about taking 600 mg of ALA before exertion, and I think he said he took another dose afterwards, though I can't find that reference now. So several weeks ago I took 600 mg ALA early afternoon before going to do errands, and another 600 mg around 4:30 p.m. I didn't notice any boost in energy, but what I DID notice was that around 7:30 p.m I got very sleepy- this never happens! I rarely get sleepy period, much less at 7:30 p.m. I stayed up until 9:30 p.m. and fell quickly asleep, awoke 1 - 2 (my usual) but surprisingly was able to go back to sleep relatively quickly.

So I tried this again the next the day and had the night from hell, awake most of the night . . . so I scratched ALA, until several days ago when I realized that that horrific insomnia was almost certainly due to my newly resurfaced extreme sensitivity to MSG in all its iterations which I recently discovered. (almost any processed food has something like this in it - a jar of olives, things you think would be safe, but no - and I don't know why this sensitivity has resurfaced after being gone for 4 or 5 years, but it has ).

Anyways, so I tried the ALA again a couple of days ago, two extra doses early and later afternoon, and I think it's helping a little with sleep, though not like the first time I took this much. I've been taking 600 mg in two 300 mg doses in the a.m. for many years.

ALA might help with other aspects of sleep and not just circadian rhythms, or not, but I think it's worth exploring.

@Diwi9 , I thought you might find this interesting

 

[Mary]

@Jyoti , should have tagged you above also

For those of you who don't know, if you add a tag to a post after you've first posted it by editing the post, that new tag won't work. Tags only work if you create them in the original post before you post it, hence this separate post.

 

[lenora]

@Mary....Hello. I'm sorry that old bugaboo, a sleep problem, has resurfaced. It's a tough one to figure out for sure.

After sleeping fairly well (for me) after all of my pelvic fractures, I'm now back to my nighttime wandering. What made the difference? I couldn't tell you and, to be honest, perhaps I was awake more than I thought, but had to stay in bed anyway. It's a blur.

Thus I'm up from about 10:00 p.m. until 12:30 a.m., wake up about twice after that, but usually fall asleep and then get up around 8:30 a.m. or so. This has been a problem for many years, too many, but sleep clinics have provided no info (in my case), sleeping meds work for only a night or two at most (awaken bright eyed and ready to go at 2:00 a.m.) and I have tried all of the usual supplements, remedies, etc. I don't even want anything any longer. Why bother in my state?

I now put it down to what is normal for me....but know the problem stems from my brain and a prior surgery (not blaming the surgery as I had problems before). I'm often more alert with less sleep. Now that's hard to figure out! It can be incredibly frustrating, I know. Wishing you well. Have you tried those purple foam earplugs? Cancellation of noise helps a lot. Yours, Lenora.

 

[Mary]

Hi @lenora - I wonder if any of your meds contribute to your insomnia. Actually I usually sleep fairly well from 10:00 p.m. until 12:30 a.m., and then have trouble sleeping the rest of the night, the opposite of you! I recently had a neurotransmitter test done which showed high levels of glutamate (excitatory) and Beta-phenylethylamine - PEA - also high, another excitatory neurotransmitter and i have no idea why this is high. But in a way it's a relief to have abnormalities show up somewhere.

So I'm doing some more experimenting, and most recently have added in acetyl-l-glucosamine in hte middle of the night - an amino acid which @Hip has posted about helping him with anxiety - because it's supposed to reduce glutamate, and it is helping, which I was so glad to see. But it's not enough - sometimes I think I just need someone to hit me over the head with a sledgehammer!

But most recently I've also added in Delta 8 CBD oil - THC and medical marijuana are not legal in Texas (as you know!) and Delta 8 is the closest thing they have (I've been told) to THC, and surprisingly again, it is helping me. I tried CBD oil several years ago and it did nothing for me. Later a product with THC helped with sleep but I hated the way it made me feel in the middle of the night. But I do fine with the Delta 8 - I don't get high but it is quite calming.

Anyways, so now with the NAG and the Delta 8 and then my usual sleep stuff (niacin, l-theanine, taurine, 5-htp, melatonin, magnesium, potassium) I'm starting to sleep better. Plus I've just re-started a pose I was told about some 5 years ago or so, which, if I do it every day, does start to help sleep as well. It helps calm the nervous system and switch from sympathetic dominant to parasympathetic. But just doing it once isn't enough, I found I had to do it daily. I wrote about it in this thread - unfortunately after some weeks it started revving up my thyroid (interfering with sleep again!) but if that happens, I plan to try to tweak my thyroid medication and see if I can keep doing the pose - because it's helping me right now. With the NAG and the Delta 8 and the pose, I slept better last night than I have in weeks.

Have you ever tried niacin at night? I started taking it at night probably 12 years ago, I can't remember how long, but it helped me fall asleep much more quickly and so I take it before bed and also middle of the night. Of course it causes the flush which can be unpleasant but I've gotten used to it and actually like it now because it usually means I'll be falling asleep before too long

I wish doctors knew more about sleep and neurotransmitters etc. Drugs like ambien really aren't the solution for severe insomnia!

 

[caledonia]

Caution with ALA - this video explains it better than I can:

 

[Mary]

@caledonia - good video. It's been several years since I've had to deal with detox symptoms. I used to detox at the drop of a hat e.g., if I ate cayenne, apple cider vinegar, anything that had "cleansing" properties, I would feel sick and poisoned and extra tired the next day. I know some of the toxicity was from mercury. Glycine taken very carefully, starting at a low dose and gradually increasing over several months, did away with my toxic overload. Glutamine and inositol also helped, to a lesser degree.

I think Andy Cutler used ALA as part of his mercury detox protocol, and yes, it was to be taken round the clock as Robin Shirley said.

 

[lenora]

HI @Mary.....I've tried so many things and combos over the years that I don't know where to begin.

My sleep problems began long before I was on meds for anything....before my first surgery, even. The second (brain) didn't help as I've found out the sleep center of my brain has been damaged.

I now have to take drugs for my two different types of epilepsy, as well as cardiac problems, lyrica for pain, anti-anxiety meds and more, plus my usual vitamins and supplements.

It's quite possible that some of the drugs interact, but I've tried everything over the years. At this point I choose not to worry about it, get frustrated at times, yes, but nothing seems to make any difference. Last night I fell asleep early and slept fairly well (for me). No complaints....tonight may be a totally different story. This has been going on for more than 35 years, so you can imagine that I've tried them all. I am going to up my mg. intake though as I'm noticing minor leg cramping.

My neurologist passed away about 2 wks. ago, I'll miss that man with all my heart, will see his replacement (who has a P.A.) and just want to be left on the same meds and will hope for the best. I hope you're sleep improves.

Also, niacin and hot flashes are definitely something I couldn't take near bedtime, no matter how much good I thought it was doing. At 75 I'm only just getting over menopausal symptoms. Enough! Thanks for the suggestion though and I think you and anyone else should try what you can. You never know!

I did take Calms Forte at the beginning of all this....I do remember it. Really, I've tried everything over the years. I guess it's what the future produces that matters for the rest of you. Good luck! Yours, Lenora

 

[Mary]

Hi @lenora - I'm sorry to hear your neurologist passed away! I hope his replacement will work with you and keep you on the same regimen ---