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alcohol helps me?

kurt

Senior Member
Messages
1,186
Location
USA
Have you used these? Any suggestions of doses?
Although I’d rather stay away from meds, I’m afraid I’m going to need something more potent to get me out of this hole.
I used Relora to help get off benzodiazapine. Started with a partial dose and worked up until it made a difference. I used tablets since they were easier to work with, usually I would take a quarter or half. Relora is pretty powerful, it stimulates increased GABA production. But treating Candida was the biggest improvement (see my comment above).
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,249
Yes, there are countless studies on Candida including many focusing on it as a pathogen.

I'm admitting I'm a bit skeptical of some of the candida issues- because I know many people who went after that as an issue for them, and did not experience any improvement.

This paper suggests its primarily an issue with artificial medical devices...forming biofilms that cause problems.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrmicro2475

Probably this is discussed elsewhere in PR threads.
 

EddieB

Senior Member
Messages
604
Location
Northern southern California
Relora is pretty powerful, it stimulates increased GABA production. But treating Candida was the biggest im

Do you feel that you had emotional/neurological damage from the candida? I’ve read where candida overgrowth can produce severe neuro toxins.

I know this has been debated by people a lot smarter than I am, but it seems so clear. First, a virus or pathogen. Then neurological damage, either concurrent, or in some cases long after the infection is gone.

I posted this elsewhere, about a long phone consult I had with my immunologist. She says evidence is already growing that some of those who recovered from covid19 are having symptoms of neurological damage from the virus.

Did you have to use anything else with the relora, or just by itself? Trying Passion flower now, but doesn’t seem to be effective.
 
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EddieB

Senior Member
Messages
604
Location
Northern southern California
I'm admitting I'm a bit skeptical of some of the candida issues- because I know many people who went after that as an issue for them, and did not experience any improvement.
...and I’m one of them. I chased it relentlessly for a couple years, extreme diets, herbs, meds, but never felt any better.

Everyone has some candida, it’s when it becomes overgrown that it’s a problem. Like many things living inside us, it’s an opportunist, that can get out of control in certain circumstances. And by all means, it can become a life threatening illness.

Last year, I met a guy while getting vit C iv’s at a clinic. He had severe candida and parasites. The candida had spread throughout his body, and literally had worms coming out his nose. Poor diet, lifestyle, and ignoring symptoms let it get out of hand. He was slowly recovering, but what amazed me was he was still able to work daily running his construction business. Not to belittle, but compared to typical me/cfs, the severity of illness did not match the level of function.

This is where I suspect the nervous system comes in. Once a virus, infection, or pathogen attacks there, it can trigger a cascade of symptoms, that literally becomes a separate disease all it’s own. Whether the infection is present or past may be irrelevant, it continues to respond regardless.

Again, I know this has been debated by others here much smarter than I am, just trying to look for ways for us to find some bit of relief. After this crazy ride I’ve been with antidepressants, it clearly has shown me how the nervous system is a major factor.
 
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kurt

Senior Member
Messages
1,186
Location
USA
...and I’m one of them. I chased it relentlessly for a couple years, extreme diets, herbs, meds, but never felt any better.

Everyone has some candida, it’s when it becomes overgrown that it’s a problem. Like many things living inside us, it’s an opportunist, that can get out of control in certain circumstances. And by all means, it can become a life threatening illness.
...
This is where I suspect the nervous system comes in. Once a virus, infection, or pathogen attacks there, it can trigger a cascade of symptoms, that literally becomes a separate disease all it’s own. Whether the infection is present or past may be irrelevant, it continues to respond regardless.

Again, I know this has been debated by others here much smarter than I am, just trying to look for ways for us to find some bit of relief. After this crazy ride I’ve been with antidepressants, it clearly has shown me how the nervous system is a major factor.
I was also one of them, chased Candida for years. Turns out I did not have the right target. Most of the Candida inside us is probably harmless, but in a few places in the body it can become incredibly toxic. That's what I'm blogging about right now, too much to post in a thread. And this is not just a theory, I have experienced some clinical improvements now that I never had before trying to fight Candida. And so have several others. So I believe it's about targeting the right location, anyway that's what is making the difference finally.

I think if you consider the years and years involved in our ME/CFS cases, even with a limited Candida infection involved, it could cause a lot of damage, over time, due to how toxic Candida can become under certain conditions. Including damage to the nervous system.
 
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EddieB

Senior Member
Messages
604
Location
Northern southern California
I think if you consider the years and years involved in our ME/CFS cases, even with a limited Candida infection involved, it could cause a lot of damage, over time, due to how toxic Candida can become under certain conditions. Including damage to the nervous system.

Absolutely. Didn’t mean to imply otherwise. Going to check your blog...

Did you use anything else along side the relora?
 

sflorence

Senior Member
Messages
134
Regarding the chart, it must have come from one of his other books. Now when I look it up on Google images it leads me back to our forum.

Yes, I believe the idea is to try the substances in the middle and then go from there.

Anything that gives me a buzz will raise my PEM threshold. If I was actually drunk I could workout or go for a run. However it's been years since I've indulged. I've only consumed alcohol once in the last ten years. Opioids and GHB were also quite effective, and then stimulants like methylphenidate and dexedrine worked somewhat as well.

I'm quite sure this has to do with my basal ganglia and it's reward system. Cort has some great articles over on healthrising on the subject. My thorough experimentation suggests the basal ganglia and its dopamine system don't work right because of a combination of oxidized terrain caused by MCAS and/or mycotoxin exposure, along with the inflammation resulting from interferon (cellular immune) activity in the brain. The interferon is the real ass-kicker here; if I stimulate cellular immunity nowadays I go from a mild case of CFS to housebound with major depression, and it goes on for months. Exactly the kind of thing that's seen in interferon-induced depression/fatigue.

I have a feeling this chart is from his older book, before Betrayal by the Brain. He considers his older works to be second-line of defense, and his 24 or so should be tried first.
 

Marylib

Senior Member
Messages
1,155
View attachment 36402

So Dr Goldstein is the only CFS doc I know of who has suggested alcohol could relieve symptoms for some.
It's in the second box from the top right (ETOH).

He believed we suffer from limbic system dysregulation and that we could improve or correct the glitch by "Tuning the Brain." He theorized we tended to fall into types, and that's what this treatment chart is getting at. So if one does wwell on alcohol they might want to consider some of the other drugs in that box.

That's an interesting chart for sure. Dr. Goldstein really thought outside the box. Thanks. In terms of the ethanol, in my case, I think it was just that particular form of sugar - it just leaps straight across the blood-brain barrier (if that barrier actually exists) Kind of like the same way that IV nutrition (the few times I could afford to get it) is like an instant kind of cure. No digestion - voila! The glucose substitute, ethanol/alcohol, was just plain peculiar and I can't afford to lose the brain cells I have left, but I appreciate the discussion and I hope everyone can find something that helps.
 
Messages
57
Location
Italy
I am not a doctor nor can suggest you what to do, but I think we should always ask a doctor before taking alcohol with drugs.
That’s because several drugs have interactions and their combination with alcohol can be really severe ... even deadly in some cases (for example with drugs that make you sleep).

Anyway, I heard about people who get better with alcohol, because it relaxes their muscles ...
In my case, alcohol = deadly pain, I drank one drop years ago and went to the hospital with my urethra broken in pieces, atrocious hell-like burning. Other males with urinare troubles found it as worsening.

I think everyone should find his own way, but asking your doctor is always the first thing to do.
 

sflorence

Senior Member
Messages
134
Still haven’t found anything but Neurontin (gabapentin) helps me pretty decently. It gives me energy and a small sense of relief similar to alcohol. I haven’t figured it out yet but tolerance comes quickly and it only takes a day or two to reset tolerance from what I’ve read.

Valerian is also good, but it makes me angry and depressed

Going to try passionflower.... lemon balm was a no go for me as well
 

borko2100

Senior Member
Messages
160
So I just ate a an amazing dinner, felt like crap after it, consumed a ridiculous amount of whiskey and tobacco to "correct" the problem, and now my limbs no longer feel weak, I can interact on this site and no longer have the "tired but wired" feeling.

I would like to report something similar that happened to me. Since around 2019 I have been suffering from pain, weakness and strange sensations in my hands. It is almost constant, but is mild most of the day and always gets worse around evening time.

Last summer I had a friend come over and I was drinking several pints daily for about 2-3 weeks. And something very strange happened. Namely this sensation in my hands started diminishing greatly, one evening (when this sensation is usually the strongest) I thought, "wow I can't notice it, is it gone?". Furthermore I had reductions in various other symptoms and needed much less rest per day (usually just one short nap) than before. These improvements lasted for quite a while. Then, when summer was over that feeling in my hands came back, my energy levels dropped and I needed to lay down / rest multiple times per day like usual.

I know that sunlight and being outdoors more help me. Now that the sun came back I've been outdoors more and getting sun and again I've noticed improvements in my energy levels. However certain symptoms, especially the hand pain haven't improved at all. Come to think of it, since 2019 this symptom has never disappeared as it did last summer.

Now I am starting to wonder: maybe it wasn't just the outdoors and sunshine that helped me, maybe it was the alcohol? Since so many people in this thread reported improvements from it, this is quite likely. After all, we know that certain benzos like Ativan help people with CFS and as most are aware benzos and alcohol are very similar substances, so improvements from alcohol would not be all that surprising.
 

JES

Senior Member
Messages
1,320
Alcohol is great for a temporary reset in some of us indeed. Last year I drove a long way to visit a friend and was completely floored by OI/POTS symptoms. I spent the evening in a restaurant and few hours later, sure enough, 80-90% of POTS symptoms were gone. It took about a litre or two pints to start to get the benefits. Without alcohol I would have been done for for the day.

Then again, once the effect wore off, symptoms increased during the night and next day was a bit crappier than normal. So in reality this is yet another short-term hack just like benzos and some other ones I've observed over the years (sleep deprivation, switching to ketogenic diet, temporary benefits from certain drugs/supplements, etc.).
 

deleder2k

Senior Member
Messages
1,129
Does anyone have any new thoughts on this in light of the Long Covid epidemic? Some speak about micro clots.
After I got ME alcohol made me feel healthy for the night. For the 2-3 next days I felt better. Without alcohol I could feel the lactic acid after walking 200 meters. With 0.5 litre of vodka I could dance all night. I went out once a week and got drunk. Since that I have become worse. Alcohol helps, but not as much as before, but it still alleviate most symptoms; including dizziness (!), pain, IBS, muscle cramps, lactic acid.

Has anyone found anything not mentioned in this thread that has the same effect as alcohol? Ketogenic diet perhaps?
 
Messages
30
Etifoxine (Strezam) delivers the same effect for me without being tipsy. The most prominent effect is the reduction in brain fog. Have more energy also.

I take 15-20mg (1/3 of the capsule) once or twice a day. If I go higher, like 1 capsule, the sedation hits me hard (which isn’t present at all with lower dosages)