Adrenal Issues and treatment problems

[caledonia]

Here's an update. I've been able to (mostly) stop my sleep from moving forward. There is still a little forward drift due to my sleep supplements not working 100%.

I am having trouble waking up between 3am and 6am. Either I wake up a bunch of times and fall back to sleep, or several times a week, I wake up and can't go back to sleep. In that case, since I'm always hungry and it's within a couple hours of breakfast anyway, I eat and take my morning pills (including ACE) so my body is still on the same pattern. Then I go back and catch the rest of my sleep. Then wake up and do lunch.

I'm maxed out on the sleep supplements the naturopath prescribed for me - 6 melatonin (18mg!), 6 5htps, and 4 holy basils. I think there is something missing that I could be taking like maybe Seriphos. I may try experimenting with that as I still have some around from the last time I tried it.

I got my food allergy test back (lots of allergies as expected) and have eliminated those from my diet. It's been about a month - I haven't noticed any difference from doing that.

I'm going to check on prices for the allergy elimination drops, hopefully next week.

 

[leaves]

Hey caledonia
If my estrogen is too low I have this sleeping problem too

 

[heapsreal]

Here's an update. I've been able to (mostly) stop my sleep from moving forward. There is still a little forward drift due to my sleep supplements not working 100%.

I am having trouble waking up between 3am and 6am. Either I wake up a bunch of times and fall back to sleep, or several times a week, I wake up and can't go back to sleep. In that case, since I'm always hungry and it's within a couple hours of breakfast anyway, I eat and take my morning pills (including ACE) so my body is still on the same pattern. Then I go back and catch the rest of my sleep. Then wake up and do lunch.

I'm maxed out on the sleep supplements the naturopath prescribed for me - 6 melatonin (18mg!), 6 5htps, and 4 holy basils. I think there is something missing that I could be taking like maybe Seriphos. I may try experimenting with that as I still have some around from the last time I tried it.

I got my food allergy test back (lots of allergies as expected) and have eliminated those from my diet. It's been about a month - I haven't noticed any difference from doing that.

I'm going to check on prices for the allergy elimination drops, hopefully next week.

i have been finding l-tryptophan alot better for sleep then 5htp and maybe better for mood too. I use a dose of 3000mg at night a few hours after eating and sometimes if i wake during the night add another 2000mg of tryptophan and seem to nod off to sleep. Still use sleep meds but the trypto has definately improved my sleep. As for the phosphatidylserine, i have found using it for a few nights then have a few nights off seems to work best. Withania tincture is another good find which is nice and calming too.

Currently im using siberian ginseng, astragalus, vit b5 500mg and recently low dose dhea 10mg a day, which has been helpful for adrenal fatigue and will be adding korean ginseng and licorice soon, but will add these one at a time and only use them in the morning to avoid any over stimulation. I will give this a few months and see how i feel and get another round of adrenal tests ie dhea/cortisol and hopefully they have improved as well as sleep. I think poor sleep has alot to do with adrenal fatigue and whacky cortisol levels and to lower dhea levels to help counteract the negative effects of cortisol.

cheers!!!

 

[jeffrez]

It's starting to appear that it's possible that melatonin is triggering autoimmunities in some ppl. It might be a good idea to back way off of 18mg. down to a saner 1-3mg. max, preferably 1mg. or under.

 

[lizw118]

Hi everyone
I am on 27.5 mg of cortef daily for adrenal issues. I tested low in diurnal cortisol. I am also on T3. I have been on cortef for 3 years now and my adrenals seem to be more stable, but I don't feel like I can get off cortef, which is a bummer. I want to try a water-only fast, as I have a lot of dysbiosis markers in urine tests. Has anyone fasted while on cortef? Would fasting on homemade organic chicken and vegetable broth only be better? Sugar of any form seems to be a problem so I don't want to do the master cleanse or juice.
Liz

 

[caledonia]

If you can't get off, it may be because you have a partial methylation block. In that case, you will be unable to make the basic things that the adrenals need to make cortisol. So even if you rest the adrenals like you've been doing they will be unable to take over.

Therefore you would need to do either Rich Vank's or Freddd's methylation protocol to jump around the methylation block. This amounts to taking active forms of folic acid and B 12, starting very low and building up gradually.

 

[caledonia]

It's starting to appear that it's possible that melatonin is triggering autoimmunities in some ppl. It might be a good idea to back way off of 18mg. down to a saner 1-3mg. max, preferably 1mg. or under.

Yes, I do feel it's ridiculous I have to take this amount. 1.5 mg used to be plenty when I was letting my sleep cycle run as it would, not forcing it to be in one place. 3mg used to make me very groggy upon waking. Now it's like I can't get enough.

My naturopath said up to 6; they're usually pretty up on the research. But I'm going to be switching to Clymer as soon as I can get some money together, so maybe they'll have some different ideas.

I haven't tried l-tryptophan as the 5htp was tolerated and working.

I haven't had estrogen levels measured, although I'm getting to that age. However, I've had this waking up at 3am problem since even before I was sick. It was my earliest symptom, starting in 1999, about a year before I became disabled.

 

[leaves]

I'm in my twenties but my hormones are all very low. I know exactly what you mean: wide awake at 3 and then fall back to sleep at 7 till 11

 

[lizw118]

Hi Caledonia
I am doing the B12 protocol now, as I do think that is an issue, but I still feel like I cannot get off of the cortef. I actually think that dysbiosis is one of the strains on my adrenals, hence the desire to do the fast. I am wondering if it is okay to do a fast while taking cortef. Do you know?
Has the B12 methylation protocol helped you?
Liz

 

[caledonia]

I'm not a fan of fasting, so I haven't looked into if it helps dysbiosis, if it would be yet another strain on the adrenals, etc.

When my sister had IBS, she was taking something called Ultraclear which is a sort of medical food. I think this would be considered an alternative to fasting. This was prescribed by a local chiropractor who specializes in helping IBS and other gut issues aka "Dr. Poop" - lol. Anyway, it did help her and and her IBS is vastly improved.

The methylation protocol has given me a little bit of energy; it's main benefit has been to vastly improve my multiple chemical sensitivities. I would say those are about 80-90% improved. I have also been able to get off Zoloft recently (after 10 years!), but I'm still not sure if I can attribute that to methylation or adrenals. Those have been the only two things I've done in the past year. I also had a big shift in the type and amount of supplements I needed around the same time - I was able to discontinue many of my supplements (determined by self muscle testing).

Anyway, pursuing both of those has been a good thing to do, and they are related as I outlined.

You may just need to stick with the methylation protocol longer before trying to get off cortef (like at least a year), or you may be one of those people who will need to keep taking it.

 

[caledonia]

Well it looks like just I'm talking to myself here - lol.

But anyway, I finally made the call to Clymer today to get retested and get started with Dr. Neville. I hope I can finally get some serious help for my adrenals.

Clymer is sending me an adrenal test kit. I'm also getting a copy of my last adrenal test and any labs from the past year or so from my naturopath for Dr. Neville to review.

I'll report back from time to time on how things are going. It looks like it's going to be several weeks to get tested, get results back and get an appt. with Dr. Neville.

 

[August59]

Hey caledonia - What type of docs are Clymer and Neville? Was your naturepath able to prescribe thorough labwork? The reason I'm asking is I'm going to have to find someone , but I've looked pretty hard around where I live and there just is not anyone that will adequately test adrenals, thyroid and sex hormones.

Which B-12 did you start with on your methylation protocol? I'm about 95% sure I had a reaction to sublinguial hydroxcobalmin, but injectable hydroxycobalmin worked really well. It might have possibly been the Actifolate (folic acid portion) that caused it, but I don't think this will be the case.

I definitely hope you will keep posting here as I constantly look for feedback on this thread.

Thanks

 

[heapsreal]

my dhea came up off the floor 2.1 to 4.32 (2.2-15.5)with vitb5, siberian ginseng and astragalus. I have just started licorice which did seem to give me some more energy, will see if it keeps helping tomorrow. Withania another herb which is suppose to be helpful which i take at night to lower high night time cortisol and seems to help. Will add in korean ginseng later after i get a feel for licorice. I have also added a very low dose dhea 10mg and havent had any bad reactions to it, hopefully this helps increase my dhea levels abit more. It will be a few months before i get tested again.

caledonia, we're keeping an eye on things, so your not talking to yourself, lol.

cheers!!!

 

[August59]

Hey heaps - Is the sleeping going a little better? Speaking of your dhea! I saw on another thread about someone from Australia that ran into the "customs" and only available with a "permit" issue. Is I read it right they applied for the permit and was able to get dhea from another country and there point was that the "permit" is just a paper trail for dhea and getting it completed and approved wasn't near the issue or trouble that they thought it was going to be. If my memory is correct, they did not even have to get a physician or any other professional involved.

Have you looked into getting a permit for dhea? Just curious and keep us posted on these additonal herbs.

 

[maddietod]

Caledonia-

I'm following! Which methyl. protocol are you doing? And I'm very interested in adrenal support/healing supplements for women (one of the ginsengs is not recommended) that are safe without testing. I don't see doctors.

 

[heapsreal]

Hey heaps - Is the sleeping going a little better? Speaking of your dhea! I saw on another thread about someone from Australia that ran into the "customs" and only available with a "permit" issue. Is I read it right they applied for the permit and was able to get dhea from another country and there point was that the "permit" is just a paper trail for dhea and getting it completed and approved wasn't near the issue or trouble that they thought it was going to be. If my memory is correct, they did not even have to get a physician or any other professional involved.

Have you looked into getting a permit for dhea? Just curious and keep us posted on these additonal herbs.

Hi August, will have to look into the permit thing, i just thought it might be to complicated and expensive but worth a look. At the moment i have an old bottle of 50mg dhea caps that i empty out and refill with 1/4 of the contents and spare caps to refill whats left, so using a dose of 12.5mg. I do have a script to get some overpriced dhea, which i will probably do as well.

Sleep has been ok. Using valium on my last night with zopiclone before my benzo free nights has helped, its confirming my thoughts on rebound insomnia from the short half life sleep meds. On the benzo free nights i use trytpophan, phosphatidylserine, melatonin, withania and a few other herbs and have been getting quite good sleep for me. Can sleeep for 3-4 hours where i wake up maybe have some more herbal stuff and go back to sleep for a few more hours. So feeling good after the non benzo nights but not consistant enough to drop the benzo on work nights, need the sleep to get through work, but im getting there. Only using benzo's 3 nights a week has helped lift my tolerance and sleep very well when on meds but would like to reduce this and get back to sleeping normally.

Cutting down to part time work has made a big difference, i think fulltime was just pushing me way outside my energy envelope and then i was almost bedridden on days off. The herbal stuff for adrenal fatiigue has helped me with endurance too and i have start some very light exercise again. SO im getting there slowly.

 

[caledonia]

Hey caledonia - What type of docs are Clymer and Neville? Was your naturepath able to prescribe thorough labwork?

Dr. Neville is an ND (naturopath). My own local naturopath is a team with a DO and MD on staff; they can get professional supplements, medical labs or various tests such as the adrenal saliva test.

Which B-12 did you start with on your methylation protocol? I'm about 95% sure I had a reaction to sublinguial hydroxcobalmin, but injectable hydroxycobalmin worked really well. It might have possibly been the Actifolate (folic acid portion) that caused it, but I don't think this will be the case.

I have always done the methyl forms, ie methylcobalamin and L 5 methyltetrahydrofolate. I think the key to tolerating it is starting with a very tiny dose and then increasing as you tolerate it, as it will also cause detox. When the toxins come out you will feel bad.

Since I'm a detox wimp, if I notice any detox symptoms, I back off to a more comfortable dose. I started with 4mcg and worked up to my current 40mcg (of each form) over a year. I'm currently using Professional Products B Complex which has both methyl forms in it. I'm taking 1/8 of one capsule per day.

 

[caledonia]

Caledonia-

I'm following! Which methyl. protocol are you doing? And I'm very interested in adrenal support/healing supplements for women (one of the ginsengs is not recommended) that are safe without testing. I don't see doctors.

I'm following Rich Vank's protocol. But I recently noticed that my multivitamin also has some of the active forms that Freddd talks about (hydroxo I think), so I think I'm covered on all bases.

 

[caledonia]

I'm glad to hear there are some people subscribed and following this thread (and I'm not just talking to the wind - lol). I will keep you all updated here.

 

[maddietod]

I'm into my 4th week on Rich's newest protocol, and I've gotten a small and stable boost. I'm able to tolerate the protocol as written. Since the effects are less than I hope for, I'm wondering how long to wait before substantially tinkering with it. Do you have any thoughts about this?
To keep this a little on-topic (!) I'll mention that in the first week I realized I'd have to go off all stimulants (sugars, caffeine, chocolate) if I wanted my energy to stabalize.