Adrenal Issues and treatment problems

[caledonia]

ASI 4 point cortisol saliva test. Taken at 1) 7am, 2) noon, 3) 5-6pm, 4) 11pm - can't remember the times exactly, but you get the idea.

Anyway - last year:
1) low
2) low
3) low
4) low

This year
1) normal
2) high
3) normal
4) normal

My local ex-naturopath had refused to retest me because I could only tolerate a fraction of a normal amount of adrenal cortex extract. They said there was no way my cortisol curve had budged at all. So I left them, hooked up with Clymer to get retested and it's vastly different from what I expected...

I've had no difference in energy to speak of from last year, I still have to supplement with sea salt and magnesium which are depleted in adrenal fatigue. I still have to sleep 10-12 hours a day. The only difference is I can tolerate heat better and am able to sweat.

So I was expecting a little higher curve, but still showing adrenal fatigue. I will hopefully find out the true situation tomorrow.

 

[Sallysblooms]

I see, thank you. I took a saliva test at diff times too. Just one time, afternoon, was low. I am getting the low one up now.

 

[taniaaust1]

Very interesting to see just how much your cortisol has changed. I havent as yet been able to get anyone to give me one of those tests of it at certain times (except just a morning one which is normal range and a 24hr urine ones which are always abnormally low)

 

[taniaaust1]

The brain fog is different to viral type brain fog though, hard to explain but seem similar to the episodes i had with preg and licorice, so i think this is a sign to stop, but may start again if the deep fatigue hits again.

I think alot of us are in touch with our symptoms and are hard to explain to others. The brain fog episodes i have been having lately a different to others i have had in the past, also i think we experience different type of fatigue which are also hard to describe. Its really hard to know or measure but i feel i can tell the difference between that viral type fatigue and adrenal fatigue(which i have seen in blood tests of dhea/cortisol) and a type of fatigue i seem to get from adrenals when they over respond which seem to cause these deep headaches and brain fog. Am i imagining things or do others experience different type of symptoms at different times which seem similar but also different that u can distinguish between?.

Heapsreal I dont think you are imagining things, I think many of us are very in touch with our symptoms. I can tell different kinds of headaches from different kinds of things and get different kinds of mind fog from different things. Trying to explain it all to well people really confuses them. Its like the tiredness or exhaustion.. there is at least 6 different kinds I get. POTS tiredness, ME/CFS tiredness, normal healthy tiredness, "wired but tired" tiredness, the kind of tiredness i get when i havent slept enough, etc It really helps one to know what to do about each symptom when one has worked out what is what.

eg I had pain the other day which felt like it was in the same region as I get period pains spasm but i knew it was ibs spasms cause it just felt a little different (in what way, i couldnt describe the difference)... my partner tried to tell me he thought my period was due (its irregular so thats a guessing game) so he thought it was that, it was hard to get him to understand thou the pain was some kind of muscular spasm pain that it felt like ibs rather then period uterus spasming pain. (it turned out i was right as i didnt end up getting my period so it must of been the ibs like i thought it felt like).

 

[heapsreal]

Thanks for the reply tania, i have stopped trying to treat the adrenals as its not really helping long term, i think i need to persue the underlying infections and immune dysfunction. I think that because we are so in touch with our symptoms, this is when docs think we are hypochondriacs, so i dont mention too many weird and wonderful symptoms to them, just the main ones like sleep, PEM and headaches etc

cheers!!!

 

[caledonia]

I had a good first appointment with Dr. Neville, adrenal specialist at the Clymer Healing Center.

He seemed quite knowledgeable on the nuances of the adrenal system and with CFS patients in general. He was able to explain things in a clear manner.

There are 7 stages of adrenal fatigue. He said last year I was a 7 (worst level low cortisol and low DHEA). This year I am a 3 (high cortisol, low DHEA). This indicates strengthening of the adrenals, but cortisol levels can get erratic at this stage.

He prescribed things to bring up DHEA and vit D, also to modulate the cortisol instead of just stimulating it.- i.e. make it lower if it needs to be lower, or make it higher if it needs to be higher.

I should see a shift in energy in 4-6 weeks, as these supplements will work indirectly on the mitochondria. If not, he can prescribe direct mitochondrial nutrients.

After 12-24 months, the food allergies may clear enough on their own to occasionally enjoy allergenic foods without doing NAET or the allergy drops mentioned by my local naturopath.

For now, I have to strictly avoid all my food allergies. I found out this is the cause of my sleep moving forward. If I avoid them, my sleep has a more stable schedule.

 

[maddietod]

@ukme I was out of bed from a 6 week crash with no improvement after a day or two on baschetti licorice extract, 2-4 grams a day. Even after a few months, if I go off the licorice I will start going down again with 3-4 days. Probably not as much b/c there has been some healing, but w/out the licorice I would be in bad shape.

Regular licorice (licorice root, licorice powder, etc.) won't really work the same way for the fatigue. It has a lot of other components that apparently can cause some people to feel worse. I can't even take half a tsp. of regular licorice powder or a cup of licorice root tea without feeling kind of ill. It has to be the licorice extract powder (used to be called Baschetti licorice) to really get full benefit in CFS. Right now the only place I know of that sells it is the Clymer people
GL

I can't find this at the Clymer center store. I found this at iherb when I searched 'baschetti licorice: http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Licorice-Root-450-mg-100-Capsules/686?at=1 but I can't tell if it's the same thing. I'd like to try this kind of licorice if I can find it.

You also mentioned that you were testing a way of influencing the hypothalamus directly. Have you had any luck with that?

Thanks!

Madie

 

[Gavman]

Lately i'm thinking the adrenals and kidneys are the last thing we should resolve with chronic fatigue if our body is reacting to so many different things. I've found vitamin c and kidney formulas throw me around worst. I'm my only research candidate though and its my opinion.

 

[heapsreal]

Lately i'm thinking the adrenals and kidneys are the last thing we should resolve with chronic fatigue if our body is reacting to so many different things. I've found vitamin c and kidney formulas throw me around worst. I'm my only research candidate though and its my opinion.

I have found the same thing. I think we need to treat the underlying infection/immune abnormality. Treating adrenals has given me short term energy but eventually chronic headaches and a worsening in condition.

cheers!!!

 

[anne_likes_red]

I have found the same thing. I think we need to treat the underlying infection/immune abnormality. Treating adrenals has given me short term energy but eventually chronic headaches and a worsening in condition.

cheers!!!

Heaps,
Have you been treating with DHEA, cortisol. glandulars or adaptogens?
Interesting (tho not good news!) that you got worse over time.
Anne.

 

[heapsreal]

Heaps,
Have you been treating with DHEA, cortisol. glandulars or adaptogens?
Interesting (tho not good news!) that you got worse over time.
Anne.

hi anne,
tried everything, glandulars, dhea, pregnenolone, ginseng,all at different times etc. tested low for dhea and cortisol was low normal. Im finding treating infections/immune system a better way. I think for me treating adrenals gives a false type of energy thats like whipping a dead horse. My thinking is once the viral load comes down then the hormonal side of things will hopefully eventually correct itself. but everyone is different and i think others have to try it as it might be very helpful to some.

cheers!!!

 

[caledonia]

Here's an update:
So far I'm taking the cod liver oil and vitamin D3 with no problems. Can't tell a difference either good or bad.

The pregnenolone has been interesting. A half hour after the first dose, my first-half-of-the-day anxiety/depression which I've had the past two months started lifting. I've had good mental days ever since. Over a week I've worked up from 1/4 of a pill to two pills per day.

Today I took two in the morning and it seemed a little too much, so I'm going to try one in the morning and one at lunch tomorrow. I'm allowed to take as many as five, but two seems about right for now.

As far as heapsreal's post, according to my research, you also need to treat anything that might be dragging down your adrenals, not just the adrenals directly, or you will not be successful.

So that can be viruses, yeast, toxins, food allergies, etc. You just have to figure out what your particular problems are and treat those too.

 

[heapsreal]

caledonia, i agree with you, i just havent got a hold of these infections yet. I think there is something to treating adrenal as i have had a few occassion when trying to treat them that i have felt almost normal for a day or 2 but the extra energy i get from the treatment causes me to crash, even if i take it easy.

I still think others should try it, Im not against it, it just didnt really work for me, but i may try it again down the track.

cheers!!!

 

[SaraM]

Like Heapsreal my Dhea and Cortisol level are low normal. Dhea and adaptogens do nothing for me. As for Preg the jury is still out.

 

[caledonia]

Update: 2 pregnenolones are definitely way too much. I had to discontinue for several days until things cleared and then start over. Overdose symptoms were feeling stressed and irritable. Now I'm back on 1/4 of one pill.

An interesting thing has been happening though. My sleep cycle, which has been moving forward for 10 years, is now moving backwards approximately one hour per week. This is like a miracle. Absolutely nothing I've tried before has budged my sleep cycle. Now it's just happening without any effort on my part (except taking pregnenolone).

 

[leaves]

really try to not take more than 3mg, your body itelf makes much less than 10 mg

 

[heapsreal]

Update: 2 pregnenolones are definitely way too much. I had to discontinue for several days until things cleared and then start over. Overdose symptoms were feeling stressed and irritable. Now I'm back on 1/4 of one pill.

An interesting thing has been happening though. My sleep cycle, which has been moving forward for 10 years, is now moving backwards approximately one hour per week. This is like a miracle. Absolutely nothing I've tried before has budged my sleep cycle. Now it's just happening without any effort on my part (except taking pregnenolone).

irritable and angry were some of the side effects i got from pregnenolone, but this didnt occurr until i had been on it for a short while and it only effected my sleep negatively. The first few days on it were amazing ie having energy and able to think but side effects kept creeping up on me even after a break and trying lower doses. I think the lowest was 5-10mg of transdermal cream which is suppose to help release the hormone slowly. I initially started at 50mg and felt fantastic for a few days, but all good things come to an end. I may need to try it again at a low dose.

good luck with it and thanks for the updates.

cheers!!!

 

[caledonia]

Each pill is 10mg, so 1/4 is 2.5mg. I think I'm going to hold at that dose for now.

 

[Sallysblooms]

if you get blood testing, all amounts of hormones work together so the amount just depends.

 

[mike22]

Thanks for sharing this treatment. Thanks for the information.