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A Reason for Using Exactly Specified Items by Type and Brand

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
This is about all the various protocols. First, if you are going to give any specific protocol a try, give it a real try. There are reason for this. First of all as many have found, brands are not all equal, whether of vitamins or other nutrients or medications. Second, exact combinations can make as much difference as specific brands or varieties. There can be alternate items based on response. One of the biggest examples I know of, and pone that totally took me by surprise, was this whole ALCAR or L-carnitine fumarate or mix of forms item To me it indicates a very fundamental difference that one form can be so completely effective and another completely ineffective and makes no difference for some people. The point is, if a person has no effects from X1, then they need to try X2 or X3. This was part of the complications and tediousness that caused Rich to attempt a "simplified" plan without all the complications.

Another reason for following a specific protocol is that it puts you onto the "map". If for instance a person is taking folic acid and asks "why am I having these folate deficiencies?" that has possible contradictory answers. For instance if the folic acid is working it could be donut hole folate insufficiency or if could be blocking the methylfolate and that is a different answer. The same is true with HyCbl. Somebody gets acne that doesn't go way after an injection. Is it because the HyCbl isn't effective and causes the tissue malformation or because it is effective and causes donut hole folate deficiency or maybe because of methyltrap caused by glutathione or NAC? Without a "standardized" base that puts one on the therapeutic map for that specific protocol. Of there isn't a "therapeutic map" of effects then everybody is guessing. At best it is an approximation, an estimate when on the map because of so many variations. However, at least some protocols make predictions about transitory effects and what they mean to adjusting the protocol. Of course if not enough people have clearly healed on a protocol it is impossible to have a therapeutic map, at least as far as people have healed.

So an example is having low folate and low potassium several days after starting methylation supplements as a prediction with a possible fix to try. If it is blockage by folic acid then it often takes far more methylfolate to overcome the folic acid and get rid of the symptoms. There are far more pathways than those mapped so far. Good health.
 

joshi81

Senior Member
Messages
171
Location
Rome,Italy,Europe
i agree with you fredd about "properly give a try" .. cor example about L carniine fumarate i never read a praticular brand...do u have one you suggest?
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
i agree with you fredd about "properly give a try" .. cor example about L carniine fumarate i never read a praticular brand...do u have one you suggest?

Hi Josh,

As far as brand I have found Jarrow L-carnitine fumarate and Drs Best L-carnitine fumarate to work reliably for me and others who try it. Also the Jarrow liquid freebase carnitine seems to work very well too. All of these are made by Sigma Tau in Italy. They supply the carnitine for all kinds of brands so it could be more the actual maker of the carnitine than the brand it is sold under. It isn't that other brands might not work or makers might not work. It means without a lot of people trying it who have a good response in specific protocol with the one kind and can compare the differences with the other brand it's an unknown. The ratings at the seller sites are unknown quantities. I have found that completely ineffective brands of MeCbl carry the same rating as the best ones, so who knows what somebody is there is rating it on.
 

beaverfury

beaverfury
Messages
503
Location
West Australia
I seem to need carnitine fumurate. I thank you for that one, Freddd. I went up a notch when i ditched acetyl-carnitine and tried fumurate with the methylation protocol.
I re-tried acetyl -carnitine recently for a while and faded fast. Back to fumurate (Source Naturals).
Could be correlation ( but i doubt it).

I'm a sinner as far as being methodical is concerned. I tend to play fast and loose and go by immediate symptoms.
I haven't cracked the b12, methylfolate puzzle yet. Whether i go high, low or no, it doesn't seem to make much difference that i can tell. (I am MTHFRC677T++ VDRtaq++ COMTv158m+- MTRR K350A+- MTRR A66G+-).
These days i tend to take a Jarrows b-right hoping to safety net all my other little methylation experiments.

One big difference i have noticed is that when i am sometimes charged in body and anxious in mind at night, i can take a sublingual reduced glutathione tablet (only a venial sin) and i calm down within ten minutes. I don't do this regularly as no-one seems to think it's a good idea. But I am damn interested to know why this might work ( ?).

I thought it might be giving me a short quick boost of glutathione but all the sources suggest it cannot lift glutathione this way. Maybe i am overdoing my b12 supplementation and the glutathione tablet is displacing cellular b12, effectively handbraking methylation.
 

beaverfury

beaverfury
Messages
503
Location
West Australia
Just thought I'd chime in by saying that the brand you refer to contains folic acid (as can be seen here), rather than L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate.

Forsooth! You are right.

It says, -' Folate (from folic acid and as QUATREFOLIC. (6S) 5 methyl tetrahydrofolic acid glucosamine salt).'

My eyes fell on the bolding and missed the rest.

I'm guessing the '5 methyl tetrahydrofolic acid glucosamine salt' is essentialy the same as L-5 methyltetrahydrofolate as far as methylation is concerned. My guesses are way off sometimes.
 

PeterPositive

Senior Member
Messages
1,426
Isn't that a little ambiguous?
Folate (from folic acid and as QUATREFOLIC. (6S) 5 methyl tetrahydrofolic acid glucosamine salt)

It sounds like the 400mcg of folate are composed of both Folic Acid and Methyl-folate. Otherwise it would only indicate the quatrefolic ingredient. To me it sounds like there's indeed some folic acid, although it's not specified how much
 

Little Bluestem

All Good Things Must Come to an End
Messages
4,930
It says, -' Folate (from folic acid and as QUATREFOLIC. (6S) 5 methyl tetrahydrofolic acid glucosamine salt).'

My eyes fell on the bolding and missed the rest.
I wonder if that wasn't their intention.

To me it sounds like there's indeed some folic acid, although it's not specified how much
Ingredients are listed in the order of their amount, so there would be more folic acid than Quatrefolic. Since folic acid is much cheaper, there may be much more of it.
 

beaverfury

beaverfury
Messages
503
Location
West Australia
Isn't that a little ambiguous?


It sounds like the 400mcg of folate are composed of both Folic Acid and Methyl-folate. Otherwise it would only indicate the quatrefolic ingredient. To me it sounds like there's indeed some folic acid, although it's not specified how much

Does seem a little ambiguous. It's a shame if it has folic acid in it, as it's otherwise got a good mix of B vitamins.

Can anyone suggest an alternative B-complex that they take?
 

PeterPositive

Senior Member
Messages
1,426
Does seem a little ambiguous. It's a shame if it has folic acid in it, as it's otherwise got a good mix of B vitamins.

Can anyone suggest an alternative B-complex that they take?
Good question... I am struggling with the same issue. As of now I am taking this product:
http://www.supersmart.com/en--Vitamins--Coenzymated-B-Formula--0540

Which is the best I can find without folic acid, but it contains folinic acid, which shouldn't be too bad. Also I just take half lozenge as a support for all the Bs while I am taking extra methyl-folate and methyl-B12. (1/2 lozenge contains 150mcg folinic acid)

I tend to prefer sublingual product because I have digestive issues and I am not sure how much I can really absorb.

Hope it helps