A nanoelectronics-blood-based diagnostic biomarker for myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS)

[nyanko_the_sane]

For those of you that just want to see the graph of results of this $200,000 study.

 

[Gingergrrl]

I apologize that I have not read this entire thread so my question may have already been explained. Were there tests run on individuals blood with the nano-needle who have similar or frequently common co-morbid conditions with ME/CFS or only with healthy controls?

What I mean is, someone like me who would never be considered a healthy control in any universe who (at present) has diagnoses of POTS, MCAS, Hashimoto's Disease, and LEMS (and had a diagnosis of ME/CFS from 2013 to 2016 by multiple doctors).

If my blood were tested (hypothetically) by the nano-needle, would I match with the ME/CFS group or the healthy control group or would it break the needle and not match with either?

I am hoping they might test people with "just POTS and MCAS" or with Lyme Disease or with the many overlapping conditions to see where they fit? I know there is very limited funding and I am not posting this as a complaint (and I think the study is brilliant). I am just so curious where other illnesses might fit or not fit.

 

[roller]

Here's a simple question. The mitochondrial membranes are inside the cell. How come the impedance of the whole cell changes when the surface of one of its interior components changes?

That's a good point. Technically I guess they would be measuring the cell's plasma membrane potential rather than the mitochondrial membrane potential (MMP) directly. The mitochondria occupy a large percentage of the intracellular volume and it is known that when the MMP changes that the plasma membrane potential can correspondingly change. This can happen during apoptosis (programmed cell death), for example, where the mitochondria control both potentials (mitochondrial and plasma). I'm not sure what the exact mechanism would be.

i dont understand it. but perhaps this osmotic stress has less to do with the cell membran, but is caused by the stuff ("plasma") in between.

The device comprises thousands of electrodes that generate an electric current, along with chambers that carry the PBMCs in plasma. In the chambers the immune cells and plasma change the flow of current from one end to another, and this change in electrical activity correlates with sample health.

“The assay detects any impedance modulation due to the presence and/or interactions of biomolecules of interest at the active sensing region of the sensors,” the investigators explained

The researchers have in addition applied machine learning tools to their dataset, to develop a classifier for ME/CFS patients, which will be required if the technology is to be used as a robust diagnostic tool. They are now recruiting patients for a larger scale study, to further validate their findings.

Using the nanoelectronics assay, we can add controlled doses of many different potentially therapeutic drugs to patients’ blood samples and run the diagnostic test again,” Esfandyarpour said. The team has already identified one drug candidate that seems to restore immune system cell and plasma function, and which they hope to test further in a clinical trial

https://www.genengnews.com/news/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-blood-test-sensitive-to-immune-stress/

 

[Rufous McKinney]

If it's true that the nanoneedle is measuring MMP then virtually any disease of any significance - multiple sclerosis, Alzheimers, cancer, diabetes, etc. - I think would be likely to show an impedance signal similar to what was found in the ME/CFS patients in the present study.

This makes sense to me.....the body is a system. It may have a variety of complex responses, but it is also limited in how it responds...so a variety of "related" illnesses likely will include the symptom being measured by the nannoneedles. I predict we will find, more and more, that a variety of illnesses can be plotted on a spectrum....and are related.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

The mitochondrial mem
branes are inside the cell. How come the impedance of the whole cell changes when the surface of one of its interior components changes?

Maybe the mitochondria are the component of the stressed cell which is responding or trying to respond to the salt.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

hints to an dysregulation

definately.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Why would you think that Ron Davis, whose son Whitney is severely ill, would be in cahoots with Big Pharma? He and his wife, Janet DaFoe, seem to me to be among the most genuine, kind people I have ever met. Plus, to my knowledge, none of his research is focused on drug treatments.

@pwme_92 , @preea , @CactusJilly , @Moof, @Rufous McKinney , @CJB, @Mel9
I was referencing Stanford's experimental ME research with drugs like Abilify. Sorry I didn't make myself clearer.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Also, pharma footing the bill is how drugs get developed.

@valentinelynx , @ScienceWillWin, @Murph, @Moof, @Mel9
It's also how other, more effective but less well-funded drugs, get axed or buried. And how the FDA is "encouraged" to approve one over the other.

 

[MEPatient345]

It's also how other, more effective but less well-funded drugs, get axed or buried. And how the FDA is "encouraged" to approve one over the other.

The FDA works based on rigorous data results. It’s impossible to bias them one way or the other.

 

[percyval577]

Right, I don´t want to deny this, but nothing conclusive for all patients in common has been observed so far, therefore all this stuff is variable, or pops up in other humans as well.
Now, it is commonly accepted that the actions of nerves do influence the immunesystem (most notably R. Ader 1974, I Baciu even earlier 1945, and than 1988 again, a lot of followers). On the other hand our disease seems to be induced by the immunesystem.

So the possibilty arises that it´s a sick sickness responce where much is individualized (in agreement with I Baciu eg). If you ask me, it´s the best chance (and might it be to get some clue, I admitt a bit).

 

[pwme_92]

Bravo. But so far this result doesnt mean anything !? Maybe the nanoneedle reacts just as well to MS, HIV, cancer, rheumatism, flu ...

This is an excellent point; it would be interesting to compare results when exposed to other stressors (as mentioned by the original poster)

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

The FDA works based on rigorous data results. It’s impossible to bias them one way or the other.

The numerous news reports, complaints, and special reporting pieces done by among others, NPR and CNN would argue with that.

 

[percyval577]

@Murph.

But it might have been worth to have said (my tiny hope), that the problem of our disease may be not on the side it seems to be at first glance (eg in the muscles or in the legs),

instead on the side of perception, and this does not mean it were a matter for psychology,

or on the side of handling, eg changing "willingly" the impedance of white blood cells, for unknown purpose but maybe only out of a misorganisation, and not because of fighting viruses or myelin sheths.

 

[nandixon]

I'm unsure of just how this fits in but it seemed too good not to share.

Here's another study that is quite an interesting coincidence as well, if it is one:

Exosomes from hyperglycemia-stimulated vascular endothelial cells contain versican that regulate calcification/senescence in vascular smooth muscle cells
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13578-018-0263-x

The study found that a particular “flavor” of exosome, one that is generated after exposure of a cell to high glucose levels, subsequently had the ability to cause both significantly increased lipid peroxidation and significantly decreased mitochondrial membrane potential (MMP).

Lipid peroxidation is the most common cause of reduced red blood cell deformability, which Ron Davis (and earlier researchers) found, while I'm thinking that decreased MMP may be a leading contender for the increased impedance Ron sees with the nanoneedle.

So an abnormality with respect to a type of exosome (qualitative and/or quantitative) in ME/CFS seems perhaps a good fit both as a candidate for the blood component that can be filtered out to make ME/CFS cells normal, and as the cause of both the reduced RBC deformability and the increased nanoneedle impedance, assuming the latter is due to decreased MMP. (Of course, where an abnormal type of exosome might fit in the overall ME/CFS disease process is another matter.)

 

[Murph]

Just remembered that we think that ATP added to the solution can also neutralise the rise in impedance:

This was discussed here:

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...nified-me-cfs-theory.55801/page-4#post-932034

 

[MEPatient345]

The numerous news reports, complaints, and special reporting pieces done by among others, NPR and CNN would argue with that.

I haven’t seen those. Could you share?

 

[roller]

dont know if, and if they did then why it wasnt mentioned in the publication.

but i believe...
they have made very sure, that they were not measuring deconditioning, nor depressed ppl
also, it wasnt just the device and electrodes, but some algorithms beside.

something is wrong with "the blood". i read, is can be something missing or something added.
(compared to the controls).
what this would change or if this is only a side effect from something else.. nobody knows, but they will find out.

i also understand, they are looking further into it. im sure, they have already progressed in finding out what is wrong.

i also understand, this nano-needle can find drugs. and this is best, imo.

lol.. i also understand, ron davis said:
23-04-2019

the fact that there is a parasite comes back saying oh ... thats were we were looking for before - parasites. so we have to keep in mind again - keep looking for these parasites.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I haven’t seen those. Could you share?

Really? This has been an ongoing issue for decades. Longer actually, but I’m relying on the tattered, ragged shreds of what memory is left to me today.

I'm not doing too well right now. I’m sure you’ll understand, since I assume you suffer from the same malignant little bastard of an illness that I do. I also assume you have access to Google. You should have no problem generating the info. Here are a few places to start:

• One of the most active critics of the FDA is a physician and Hoover Institution fellow named Henry I. Miller, whose most significant qualification is that he worked in the FDA from 1979 to 1994 serving in its regulatory processes. Speaking from personal experience, he described the incentives within the FDA. You’ll find his opinions interesting and illuminating.
• Vioxx, which killed thousands upon thousands of patients and injured unknown numbers of others before the FDA was finally literally forced almost at gun point (read thousands of wrongful death lawsuits) to remove it frm the market. I was one of the “lucky ones”, suffering only from extended severe and debilitating pain, but still here to tell the tale. In my case, and many others, it was prescribed as a chemo and post-chemo treatment for severe bone and joint pain.
• The Swine Flu Vaccine of the mid-to-late 70’s, which caused an activation of Guillaume-Barre and paralyzed uncounted patients, killing quite a few before having it’s questionable FDA approval reviewed and withdrawn..
• CNN did a lengthy report a couple of years back on the number of drugs approved by the FDA, and later pulled from the market due to serious, and often deadly, ‘unexpected’ side effects, up to and including death. About a third of the drugs the FDA approved between 2001 and 2010 were involved in some kind of safety event after reaching the market.
• Some of them had been marketed for years, like Darvocet/Darvon, which caused increased risk of stroke and heart attacks; Dexfenfluramine which was found to be Cardio-toxic; Cyclofenil, which was discovered to be hepatotoxic after it killed quite a few patients. All this, after full FDA ‘certified safe’ approval.
• Then there’s Baycol (Cerivastatin), by Bayer, recalled in 2001 and reportedly responsible for more than 100,000 deaths following full approval, and later slow, foot-dragging, reluctant removal, by the FDA. Litigation related damages topped the one-trillion dollar mark. Impressive.
• Bextra, similar to Vioxx and just as deadly, despite ‘careful vetting’ by the FDA. The concerns were similar: increased risk of heart attack and stroke, with the added bonus of a deadly, and often fatal, skin disease. One billion plus in legal awards against Pfizer, and a fine of over a billion against UpJohn and another company.
• Rezulin, removed only after the FDA attempted to delay the process by acceding to Warner-Lambert’s complaints about the removal, irrespective of how many diabetic patients suffered severe consequences from the drug-induced hepatitis it also conveyed as an added and unnoted benefit, and who also demanded, and got, the removal of the FDA doctor who first voiced concern over the drug. Nice.
• Most recently, cause I know that’s going to be the next mode of questioning, the losartan potassium/hydrochlorothiazide combination tablets manufactured by Macleods Pharmaceuticals Limited. These blood pressure meds are being recalled for several reasons, one of them being contamination with a carcinogenic, among possible others. I posted a warning thread on this months ago.
• And , of course, the opioid addiction scandals, unarguably caused by dishonest marketing and heavy pressure in the form of numerous rewards programs to prescribing physicians by the manufacturers, who are also supposed to be overseen by the FDA, who, like Lady Liberty, appears to be perpetually blindfolded.
• The New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, the Washington Post, and USA Today have also all run substantial numbers of articles and investigatory pieces on these issues.

Soooo ….. there’s some starting places for you. Now I’m going to crawl into bed, where I expect to receive my mail for the next several days.

 

[MEPatient345]

Sorry, I was literally expecting you to post a link to a CNN article and NPR, didn’t mean for you to use so many spoons on this.

What I understood you to have said before was that they are corrupt, biased politically by people leaning on them to approve or not approve drugs for profit reasons. I do not think that happens, at least in the last 10 years.

The FDA approval process is very difficult. CEOs may know the FDA folks well, but those relationships won’t help get a product approved. Just rigorous safety standards and meticulous quality assurance during manufacturing, and clinical trial design. Even then, they can fail.

You may have seen examples in the press of failed trials for Alzheimer’s etc over the past 5 years. If anyone wanted to get something approved, it would be all the old white men in politics and who run pharma who are personally terrified of Alzheimer’s.

The other good news is, in the past 10 years, many diseases are moving from chemical drugs to biologic agents, which are safer for people. For example, in asthma, they moved away from covering symptoms with damaging steroids, to using biologics like xolair. I think that OMF too has shown they are not rushing to use toxic agents like cyclosphamide on us, and would look for more modern, but approved drugs.

Hope you are resting up, @YippeeKi YOW !!

 

[Murph]

lol.. i also understand, ron davis said:

the fact that there is a parasite comes back saying oh ... thats were we were looking for before - parasites. so we have to keep in mind again - keep looking for these parasites.

23-04-2019

I remember an idea Ron had a while ago - that it could be an elusive trypanosome, like in the t.b. gambiense form of african sleeping sickness. I wonder if the filtering of the blood down to plasma would also remove any trypanosomes.

I wonder if trypanosomes can make their own exosomes??