A LOW LEVEL OF OXYGEN IN THE MUSCLES (HYPOXIA) IS CAUSE OF CHRONIC FATIGUE, POST-EXERTIONAL MALAISE:PEM, NON-RESTORATIVE SLEEP, M-E STIFFNESS AND PAIN

[Wayne]

Is it really the level of oxygen in the blood or is it an inability to use the oxygen present? -- MB may give some help but like most everything else people try, it may work for some and not others or work for a while and then never again. Its unlikely to be the cure.

Hi @Florida Guy -- Your "hypothesis" about lack of ability to use oxygen, leading to inability to digest properly is very interesting to me. I once ran across a testimonial by a woman with serious digestive problems and had to take a bunch of digestive enzymes with everything she ate. She then started doing HBOT, and discovered her years' long battle with gastroparesis was relieved after doing just two sessions, and no longer had to take digestive enzymes.

I have my own mHBOT chamber, and have done literally hundreds of sessions over the past few years, and feel I've gotten a variety of benefits from using them. I usually did sessions approx. every other day for maybe an hour or so, sometimes a bit longer.

I recently started doing them almost daily, for as long as 2-3 hours. Since starting that, I've noticed my energy levels are better, my cognitive function and stamina is better, AND, it seems my digestion has improved. This has only been happening over the past 1-2 weeks, so we'll see how it goes. But it this time, I'm encouraged. Your "hypothesis" may be applicable to some degree in my situation. -- I think your assessment about Methylene Blue is pretty accurate--will work for some, not for others.

 

[Oliver3]

Is diamox a treatment idea

 

[Florida Guy]

I have my own mHBOT chamber, and have done literally hundreds of sessions over the past few years, and feel I've gotten a variety of benefits from using them. I usually did sessions approx. every other day for maybe an hour or so, sometimes a bit longer.

I've heard good things about 02 therapy. Its good for infections that are hard to heal and can help with injuries as well. It may help with brain fog and other things. However, oxygen can be a problem, oxygen toxicity is a real danger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_toxicity

"Central nervous system toxicity is caused by short exposure to high partial pressures of oxygen at greater than atmospheric pressure."

Apparently even a short exposure can be dangerous. I don't know what is the difference between those who feel a benefit and those who suffered some damage?

"Prolonged exposure to above-normal oxygen partial pressures, or shorter exposures to very high partial pressures, can cause oxidative damage to cell membranes, collapse of the alveoli in the lungs, retinal detachment, and seizures."

Its counter intuitive that the element most needed for life can cause harm. The article does not say if there is any damage from breathing pure oxygen at a normal pressure. The amount of pressure seems to make a difference. People might feel better by breathing extra 02 if they are feeling depressed or it might help fighting off an infection.

 

[Hope_eternal]

Hi @Tammy -- I started taking Methylene Blue [Methylene Blue -- The "Perfect Supplement" For ME/CFS (?)] last year, and have gotten some really good benefits from it. I continue to research it, most recently in its relation to COVID 19, COVID vaccines, and spike proteins that are created by both.

One thing I've learned is that COVID spike proteins apparently turn the iron in hemoglobin from ferrous oxide to ferric oxide--two very different forms of iron. This hinders the hemoglobin's ability to release oxygen, and is why people who get COVID usually have difficulty maintaining oxygen levels in the body.

Methylene blue turns the ferric oxide back to ferrous oxide, allowing the body to raise its oxygen levels. MB is primarily known in the medical field as a treatment for methemoglobinemia, carbon monoxide poisoning, and any hypoxic condition in the body. It's even used to treat altitude sickness.

The medical establishment early on intubated severely ill COVID patients to raise their oxygen levels, and (apparently) as many as 90% of them died. Why didn't they just start giving them Methylene Blue? It's been around for 150 years, and is well known to (extremely safely) increase oxygen levels.

Hi Wayne, do you know how a person test if this is a problem for them? My son has se ere fatigue and nothing we have tried has made a difference I. Fact most things we have tried make him even more fatigued. He’s in bed 24/7. And he gets PEM regularly. His energy level is very very low. I wonder if MB will help? Thank you for any insights you can share.

 

[Officialbdee]

Does anyone know what binder to use for the broken down fibrin ?

 

[Violeta]

 

[Wayne]

Hi Wayne, do you know how a person test if this is a problem for them? My son has se ere fatigue and nothing we have tried has made a difference I. Fact most things we have tried make him even more fatigued. He’s in bed 24/7. And he gets PEM regularly. His energy level is very very low. I wonder if MB will help? Thank you for any insights you can share.

Hi @Hopesprings86 -- Just saw this post of yours, and realize I didn't reply (sorry). I haven't seen you around in a while. Would be happy to answer any specific questions regarding oxygen (or anything else). I hope you and your son are doing better. Best...

 

[Oliver3]

Hi @Hopesprings86 -- Just saw this post of yours, and realize I didn't reply (sorry). I haven't seen you around in a while. Would be happy to answer any specific questions regarding oxygen (or anything else). I hope you and your son are doing better. Best...

Hi Wayne, I've bought some methylene blue but I'm concerned about the idea that it scavengers nitric oxide potentially leading to hypertensive crisis. Do you know anything about that?

 

[I am sick]

I found the questionnaire so interesting. I believe I have post vaccine CFS/ME and have been asking every doctor about why my nails/fingertips look they way they do without answers.

In your first question it mentions dark red in the distal fingers which is what has formed since I got the vaccine. For me it shows up as red skin right below the nail. I’m assuming it is blood since I can squeeze it out only for it to return a few seconds later. What has confused me though is that it disappears in a pool (cool water) and becomes much more prominent in heat. If it was a blood clot I would think the heat would make it better as it is causing vasodilation? I also have SFN and Raynauds so maybe it isn’t even a blood clot but something to do with faulty vasoconstriction/vasodilation. I was also wondering if could have been neovascularizarion since it didn’t appear for over a year after the onset of my symptoms.

I took the rest of the survey and only scored an 11 (but I’m already taking nattokinase daily so that may have affected the score).

Pictures of both hands attached for reference. Does anyone else have these finger findings?
View attachment 54144View attachment 54146

I have had that turned index finger on both hands all my life and that pointed out pinkie , my thumbs are straight though

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I have had that turned index finger on both hands all my life and that pointed out pinkie , my thumbs are straight though

I'm confused about what is being described here. (regarding fingers)

A more intense red color around the finger nails....means what?

And what are you describing? Curving fingers themselves?

 

[I am sick]

I'm confused about what is being described here. (regarding fingers)

A more intense red color around the finger nails....means what?

And what are you describing? Curving fingers themselves?

Hi Rufous
Hope you are feeling better!
I was commenting about the specific fingers being turned in exactly like mine. I have very rarely saw anyone with an exact finger position

 

[Hope_eternal]

Hi @Hopesprings86 -- Just saw this post of yours, and realize I didn't reply (sorry). I haven't seen you around in a while. Would be happy to answer any specific questions regarding oxygen (or anything else). I hope you and your son are doing better. Best...

Hi @Wayne, thank you for your note. We are still in the same boat, after trying lots of supplements, LDN, and 2 antivirals. One physician wanted us to try MB. Are you still taking it? After I read it was derived from tar it Kindof made me nervous., how are things going for you?

 

[Carl]

Symptom and cause are very different things. This is not the cause of ME.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Can I post my hand? I think it looks so strange...

Here you can see

1) subcutaneous fat loss, which makes things like walking down the hallway barefoot almost impossible. The fat is missing or less, plus I believe this is tied to collagen breaking down the Pad itself which forms the structure.

2) red blotching

3) my skin is much thinner due to age plus THIS

4) collapsed fingertips and hardly any finger prints

5) I have the red around the fingernails. My fingernails have lists of issues.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I also do not understand why I could not locate this thread two days ago using PR search. Only the older threads by Dr. Aguirre- Chang show up. Driving me a bit crazy.

 

[Wayne]

One physician wanted us to try MB. Are you still taking it? After I read it was derived from tar it Kindof made me nervous.

Hi @Hope_eternal -- Good to hear from you! It sounds like that's no longer the case. Did a quick query and came up with the following:

Methylene blue was originally synthesized in the late 1800s from coal tar dyes, which were the basis for much of early medicine (including antibiotics). But the modern pharmaceutical-grade compound is highly purified, and no longer resembles its industrial origins.​

Hi Wayne, I've bought some methylene blue but I'm concerned about the idea that it scavengers nitric oxide potentially leading to hypertensive crisis. Do you know anything about that?

Hi @Oliver3 -- I just did a quick search and came up with the following. Sounds like it's not something to be "overly" concerned about. As always, probably best to start slowly. Also, if you check out my MB thread, it appears adding Vit. C to the MB somewhat changes its chemical structure, making it a better option.

• Methylene blue inhibits nitric oxide synthase and guanylate cyclase, reducing NO signaling.
• This is why it's used to treat refractory hypotension (low blood pressure), like in septic shock.
• However, doses used in those situations are 10–100x higher than what's typical for cognitive or mitochondrial support.

 

[Violeta]

Symptom and cause are very different things. This is not the cause of ME.

Right, what causes the hypoxia?

Although working to correct hypoxia alleviates a lot of symptoms for me.

 

[andyguitar]

Right, what causes the hypoxia?

Could it be more than 1 cause?

 

[Violeta]

Damaged glycocalyx can negatively affect O2 and CO2 exchange, particularly within the microcirculation.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10480029/

​

Slaghekke pointed out that the amount of oxygen and nutrients reaching the muscles is not just a matter of blood flow, but that something called diffusion is equally important. Once the blood gets to the muscles, oxygen and nutrients need to be able to diffuse across the capillaries into the tissue itself.​

Preload Failure + Impaired Oxygen Uptake​

The other major subset has preload failure plus an inability to take up oxygen in the muscles. This group is not pumping enough blood out, and the oxygen in the blood they are pumping out is not being taken up – a double whammy – as Systrom put it. (An upcoming paper from Systrom will show that the same thing is happening in long COVID.)
https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2025/06/28/blood-diffusion-chronic-fatigue-long-covid/

Ginkgo maintains ATP content by a protection of mitochondrial respiration and preservation of OxPhos; exerts arterial and venous vasoregulator effects involving the release of endothelial factors and the catecholaminergic system.

Hypoperfusion

What else?

Preload Failure – THE Ubiquitous Finding in ME/CFS and Long COVID​

Systrom noted that the one ubiquitous finding in ME/CFS and long COVID is “preload failure”. Preload failure refers to reduced “filling pressure” when patients are upright, and particularly during maximum exercise. Preload failure occurs when the veins that return the used-up blood to the heart fail to constrict properly and drive normal amounts of blood to the heart.

The preload failure sets up reduced stroke volume, which refers to reduced amounts of oxygenated blood flowing out of the right side of the heart into the arteries.

Traditional Chinese medicine says dirty, thick blood does not carry oxygen well.

Which reminds me, iron deficient blood does not carry oxygen well.

 

[Violeta]

Hypoxia can cause this:

PKM2 accelerated the progression of chronic fatigue syndrome via promoting the H4K12la/ NF-κB induced neuroinflammation and mitochondrial damage​

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40155479/

This can lead to increased lactate levels.

Hypoxia inhibits phosphatidylcholine (PC) biosynthesis by depleting ATP and CTP, reducing choline phosphorylation and phosphocholine conversion to CDP-choline, respectively, in tissues like the heart and lungs.

This study is complicated, but:
Effect of hypoxia on purine metabolism in human skeletal muscle cells

https://www.scielo.org.mx/scielo.ph...vity,significant at the transcriptional level