Sulfation, Sulfoxidation, Glutamate Toxicity, and the Thyroid Connection

[picante]

When taking high doses of B12 and/or B9, one stimulates RBC synthesis. Think about it.

THANK you, Izzy. I count on you to draw connections that I don't get.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Remember that vitamin A is the iron transporter.

 

[picante]

Remember that vitamin A is the iron transporter.

I'm taking vitamin A (10,000 units every 4 days or so). Do you take it?

 

[Gondwanaland]

I'm taking vitamin A (10,000 units every 4 days or so). Do you take it?

I take 10,000iu of vit A every 30 or 60 days (beacause I do not tolerate D/K2 supplementation to balance that). I am about to start a trial of 250mg cod liver oil more frequently though.

I am impressed at how my ferritin lowered after my supplementation for anemia. My ferritin has always been highish, and now it's mid range, but it's scary how fast it can go down

 

[picante]

Your ferritin came down when you supplemented iron? Or something else?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Your ferritin came down when you supplemented iron? Or something else?

No, I haven't supplemented with iron b/c my ferritin was high-ish. The ferritin has clearly been used up after my anemia protocol, which was a good thing.

 

[Violeta]

I have a bunch of puzzle pieces I'd like to spread out on the table and see if the mighty group brain can put them together for me. I have lots of data, but no idea what tests I should have done next or new remedies I might reasonably try.

The most recent discovery in the saga of my treatment is recorded here for posterity:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...arguments-confuse-me.21963/page-5#post-625201

Briefly, that is where I ditched reduced L-glutathione cream because I realized that it was provoking glutamate toxicity (and other problems). Thank you, @Freddd.

Since starting methylation supps a year ago, I've been experiencing severe problems with thiol-containing foods, and now I've found another co-traveler: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...lfur-pst-and-sulfate-reducing-bacteria.39415/

@Changexpert and I have different symptoms, but for both of us, the sensitivity came on when we started trying methylation protocols. For me, it marked the return of the digestive problems I had before I started taking T3 for Hashimoto's thyroiditis. T3 controlled this for 6-7 years; it returned with my attempts at methylation.

Before that, I could eat eggs (as many as I wanted), chard, organic cheese, animal protein, and many other things that now knock me down for the count at very low threshholds. We are both in a blind alley with MeB12 and AdB12: for me, all it takes is one drop of liquid MeB12 applied on my skin (approx. 66 mcg) two days in a row. That triggers not being able to eat much of anything.

Strangely, that first day on one drop of MeB12 (AdB12) my cellular thyroid metabolism goes up and I feel better. A few hours after the 2nd day's dose, everything goes to hell.

The symptoms are the same set I have from ingesting glutamates such as autolyzed yeast extract, which I avoid like the plague: immediate helium-balloon bloatation, and I get intensely groggy (Zzzzzzz, I'm in the poppy field in Oz). The tiny doses of B12s aggravate this, and trigger insatiable potassium deficiency. Shoveling in the potassium then triggers B1 and zinc deficiencies, and I have to go off protein and B12s/mfolate to let all this sort itself out.

No, I don't have any +/+ CBS snps. The problems lie elsewhere. Given the +/+ snps I do have, I may be having trouble converting homocysteine to methionine (both pathways). And I suspect problems with conversion of glutamate-to-glutathione and glutamate-to-GABA (based on symptoms). I also suspect problems with sulfite-sulfate conversion.

Other clues I've been putting together:

Sulfite inhibits Glutamate Dehydrogenase: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15273247

Glutamate & Thyroid: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18543341 T(3) regulates extracellular glutamate levels by modulating the astrocytic glutamate transporters.

γ-Aminobutyric acid production by culturable bacteria from the human intestine
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22612585
@Gondwanaland steered me here, so I'm trying a probiotic with Lactobacillus brevis in it now.

I have the same problem with thiols, although not as bad as it used to be. No matter how many of my other symptoms I improve whenever I go back to eating the brassica vegetables and other goitrogens, I get very, very ill. Idon't know what brought mine on, but it's interesting that yours came on with supplementing with methyls.

For me, at least, since it's not clearing up, I wonder if there was some sort of genetic morph caused by I don't know what. My first readings about methylation were by Chris Masterjohn, so I only tried the supplementation with high doses of methyl B12 and methylfolate for a short time, and not having good results, and also finding the B2 I love you thread, I switched to taking B2. I had been taking choline for about a year before that, and that had afforded relief for digestion issues.

Another thing I had read before finding or trying supplementing b12 and b9 for methylation issues, is that there is usually a block involved, and after seeing many others have problems with forcing the issue with B's, and having problems myself, I now am back to looking for a block and working on it that way.

Which brings to mind that while focusing on improving methylation through the methyl B's more than one person reported coming up with Parkinsonian symptoms. Which makes me think that it would be an interesting direction to look in. Especially since B2 is reported by some to be one of the best supplements for Parkinson's.

Also makes me wonder, since Parkinson's involves iron metabolism disruption, if mishandled iron might be my block. Especially since I have what seems to be secondary porphyria.

Have you read the link between Hashimoto's and EBV? And then there is, I think, a link between EBV and iron metabolism. And then there is a link between iron metabolism and ER stress.

One strange thing is I can eat eggs certain times of the year and not others. Which makes me think I have some sort of issue with the fat soluble vitamins.

Not to confuse the issue,

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Violeta, just out of curiosity, have you tried eating yolks only? (is your iron/ferritin high or low?)

 

[Violeta]

@Gondwanaland , no, not since I had read about them being the part of the egg that contains uric acid. But I have tried eating egg whites only, and have found that helpful.

I haven't had my iron or ferritin measured in 10 years or more, so I don't know about that.

 

[Gondwanaland]

not since I had read about them being the part of the egg that contains uric acid.

There is reasearch saying that it is more important to reduce fructose in regard of uric acid retention, have you tried that?

 

[Violeta]

There is reasearch saying that it is more important to reduce fructose in regard of uric acid retention, have you tried that?

No, because the study that they use to show that fructose is more important in regard of uric acid retention they do not come to a valid conclusion.

If you look at the study you will see that fructose raising blood levels of uric acid is because it helps get uric acid out of the cells. It is dose dependent. That's why eating fruit bothers some people and not others. That's why most little kids can eat as much fruit as they want and not get gout or hyperuricemia.

 

[Violeta]

Since starting methylation supps a year ago, I've been experiencing severe problems with thiol-containing foods, and now I've found another co-traveler:

I had been thinking my issue with thiol containing foods was a silica deficiency, but as of finding this article, it may be more of a selenium deficiency, which for sure I do have. (Selenium-thyroid!-heavy metals- viruses)

It's difficult to find anything online about sulforaphane being anything but good for you, but when you consider what it does to some people with some sort of thyroid??? or other unidentified issue, you have to wonder.
http://www.denvernaturopathic.com/toomuchbokchoy.htm

I forget what thioredoxin does, have to check back in a different thread for that.


http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/content/24/3/497.full

 

[ahmo]

I have the same problem with thiols, although not as bad as it used to be. No matter how many of my other symptoms I improve whenever I go back to eating the brassica vegetables and other goitrogens, I get very, very ill. Idon't know what brought mine on, but it's interesting that yours came on with supplementing with methyls

I've been able to add garlic, but not much beyond that. Just increased my molybdenum, suggested for this issue. I'd been on 900mcg BID, have now doubled that plus adding 450mcg midday. Will be testing egg tomorrow.

 

[picante]

But I have tried eating egg whites only, and have found that helpful.

That is astounding, if you're sensitive to thiols. Aren't the whites higher in free thiols than the yolks? And the whites are "potent histamine liberators" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_allergy#Egg_white_intolerance)

 

[picante]

I had been thinking my issue with thiol containing foods was a silica deficiency, but as of finding this article, it may be more of a selenium deficiency, which for sure I do have.

Are you taking selenium? I've been taking it for years, ever since I found out I have Hashi's. Now I've switched from selenomethionine to ionic liquid selenium. I'm hypothesizing that it may help to not take methionine, which leads to more homocysteine. My homocysteine is not high: it's all draining down the transsulfuration pathway.

 

[picante]

Just increased my molybdenum, suggested for this issue. I'd been on 900mcg BID, have now doubled that plus adding 450mcg midday. Will be testing egg tomorrow.

Good luck! Let us know what happens.

 

[picante]

whenever I go back to eating the brassica vegetables and other goitrogens, I get very, very ill.

What symptoms do you get?

 

[picante]

I had been taking choline for about a year before that, and that had afforded relief for digestion issues.

All it did for me was give me horrible cognitive problems. Slowest brain I've ever had.

 

[ahmo]

Good luck! Let us know what happens.

Ate that egg today. Seems ok, my body is giving me an enthusiastic + sign, but not daily. However, my face looks a bit reddish, unclear whether this is the beginning of the outbreak I got prior to jettisoning thiols. Will keep track of it.

 

[Violeta]

Are you taking selenium? I've been taking it for years, ever since I found out I have Hashi's. Now I've switched from selenomethionine to ionic liquid selenium. I'm hypothesizing that it may help to not take methionine, which leads to more homocysteine. My homocysteine is not high: it's all draining down the transsulfuration pathway.

Yes, but I haven't been taking it every day. It's the selenomethionine, and I want to either start getting it solely from food or get an ionic one. Ionic may be better, which brand do you use? I hadn't thought about the methionine, but I should.