Potential risks of thiol supps: IV glutathione, alpha lipoic acid (ALA), N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) etc

[LivingwithFibro]

Oh no, my brother takes it everyday. Does it really move the mercury (if there is any) to the brain even in small doses? Can anyone link me to some studies?

Though there are so many people who take ALA everyday for years and feel fine.

 

[ahmo]

All I've got are 600 mg caplets. :/ How should I divide them?

You can presumably dilute the ALA into a liquid. I do this with naltrexone. So, eg, 600mg + 600ml water would give you 1mg:1ml doses. Or, you could divide the cap into 3, by emptying into some empty caps (I save the capsules when I empty contents directly into my mouth), which gives you 200mg + 200ml water for same dilution, or with a brain that can do a little math better than mine, you can work out a dilution that works for you. It's recommended to use distilled water for the naltrexone, but that might have to do with making batches that last for a month.

 

[Sushi]

Does it really move the mercury (if there is any) to the brain even in small doses? Can anyone link me to some studies?

It moves it if it finds it and "picks it up." Where it "drops" it, if and when you dose runs out, could be the brain or anywhere else. There are studies, yes. I don't have time to hunt them down, but you could probably find them with a good search.

Edit: Think of musical chairs...when the music stops....

 

[LivingwithFibro]

It moves it if it finds it and "picks it up." Where it "drops" it, if and when you dose runs out, could be the brain or anywhere else. There are studies, yes. I don't have time to hunt them down, but you could probably find them with a good search.

Edit: Think of musical chairs...when the music stops....

Oh ok, I just thought it was Andrew Cutler's hypothesis - at least that's what I last read.
Scary though, supplements aren't as safe as people may reckon they are. Same with herbs.

 

[LivingwithFibro]

You can presumably dilute the ALA into a liquid. I do this with naltrexone. So, eg, 600mg + 600ml water would give you 1mg:1ml doses. Or, you could divide the cap into 3, by emptying into some empty caps (I save the capsules when I empty contents directly into my mouth), which gives you 200mg + 200ml water for same dilution, or with a brain that can do a little math better than mine, you can work out a dilution that works for you. It's recommended to use distilled water for the naltrexone, but that might have to do with making batches that last for a month.

Genius idea!!! Thank you so much. You made me save a bottle of expensive ALA.

 

[Johnmac]

Just to reiterate that alpha lipoic acid is the only chelator that can remove mercury from the brain, & so is fairly potent stuff; that it needs to be taken around the clock every 3 hours, or it can redistribute mercury (dump it in the wrong places rather than escorting it from the body), which can be disastrous; that it shouldn't be taken if you have amalgam fillings or have had them within the last 3 months; & that it has side-effects for many even if those rules are observed, so you need back-up supplements to minimise these.

Some people break these rules & get away with it (high tolerance to mercury; not much mercury in the first place; etc). But the ones who've been damaged have really been damaged, so it's worthwhile doing it properly.

That means reading Cutler's book, or the more accessible primer by David Hammond (disclosure: edited by me), and proceeding carefully at first.

 

[David Hammond]

@whodathunkit DMPS increases excretion of mercury much more than DMSA and reduces the symptoms from chelation more effectively.

 

[Johnmac]

Re various questions, above:

* Cutler is fine with ALA alone, & indeed it works. He does say you will generally reduce side-effects & increase mercury removal something like 30% if you use DMPS or DMSA as well. DMPS is better side-effect-wise, tho DMSA has the advantage that it also removes lead.

* You need to get really familiar with Cutler principles before you begin chelation, as it can be a heavy duty experience & you can definitely harm yourself by doing it wrong.

* A major source of mercury for most of us is vaccines. The most common preservative, thimerosal, contains mercury & has been used in a huge array of vaccines. It is still used in a few such as multi-shot flu.

* One way to get small doses from larger capsules of ALA is to tip the contents of (say) one 100mg capsule of ALA into a bottle with measuring marks (100ml, 200ml, etc up to 1000ml) - maybe a baby’s bottle - add fruit juice, & a few drops of lemon juice to get the pH right, & shake vigorously. You now have doses of 10 mg. Drink down to the next measure two- or three-hourly.

* After a few months of ALA chelation (i.e. liberating mercury from my organs), I had the worst thiol reactions in the history of medicine. (A drop of onion juice left on my plate accidentally could put me in bed for a day.) I began the Rich (SMP) methylation protocol, & those severe symptoms vanished in a few days & have never returned. I am the only case of this I have heard of.

* If you took ALA every 6 or 12 hours & you had sufficient mercury in your tissues, yes you could get pretty sick. In the alpha lipoic acid section of herbalist Ray Sahelian’s website someone asks why they get extremely sick whenever they take ALA, tho no-one there knew the answer. There are many cases like this.

 

[LivingwithFibro]

Re various questions, above:
* One way to get small doses from larger capsules of ALA is to tip the contents of (say) one 100mg capsule of ALA into a bottle with measuring marks (100ml, 200ml, etc up to 1000ml) - maybe a baby’s bottle - add fruit juice, & a few drops of lemon juice to get the pH right, & shake vigorously. You now have doses of 10 mg. Drink down to the next measure two- or three-hourly.

* After a few months of ALA chelation (i.e. liberating mercury from my organs), I had the worst thiol reactions in the history of medicine. (A drop of onion juice left on my plate accidentally could put me in bed for a day.) I began the Rich (SMP) methylation protocol, & those severe symptoms vanished in a few days & have never returned. I am the only case of this I have heard of.

.

* Why the lemon juice and fruit juice? Would it not work with water alone?

* Why do you think you experienced such a thing?

 

[TheChosenOne]

* You need to get really familiar with Cutler principles before you begin chelation, as it can be a heavy duty experience & you can definitely harm yourself by doing it wrong.

The only principle you need to know is that you have to take your chelators according to the half life. There is no need to read to book if you are not capable to read books, although it is recommended.

tip the contents of (say) one 100mg capsule of ALA into a bottle with measuring marks

How do you know that the ALA is evenly divided amongst the whole liquid? Isn't it better to divide the liquid into small portions right after mixing?

* Why the lemon juice and fruit juice? Would it not work with water alone?

Yes.

 

[LivingwithFibro]

The only principle you need to know is that you have to take your chelators according to the half life. There is no need to read to book if you are not capable to read books, although it is recommended.

Thanks a lot!

There are other recommendations too I think like increasing your protein intake and taking Vitamin C with your meals.


Can't remember anything else, for the past 4 months my brain fog has tripled and there is no way I can read heavy books at the moment.

 

[TheChosenOne]

increasing your protein intake

This isn't always good for everyone, especially the ones with gut issues.

 

[LivingwithFibro]

This isn't always good for everyone, especially the ones with gut issues.

Okay, just to reconfirm. All you do is take a low but regular dose of ALA every 3 hours. Vitamin C with meals. Not any other supplements? You do this 3 days out of 7. Do you also skip months like days?

 

[TheChosenOne]

Okay, just to reconfirm. All you do is take a low but regular dose of ALA every 3 hours. Vitamin C with meals. Not any other supplements? You do this 3 days out of 7. Do you also skip months like days?

It's important to do the rounds of chelation right. The amount of time between chelation rounds may vary. Some do 1 round per week, others 1 round per 2 weeks.
Personally, I've done 1 round per week. Now I've taken a break from chelation for a few weeks.

Cutler also recommends vitamin C, vitamin E, a B complex and zinc (to replace heavy metals). But you will get better if you only chelate.

 

[LivingwithFibro]

It's important to do the rounds of chelation right. The amount of time between chelation rounds may vary. Some do 1 round per week, others 1 round per 2 weeks.
Personally, I've done 1 round per week. Now I've taken a break from chelation for a few weeks.

Cutler also recommends vitamin C, vitamin E, a B complex and zinc (to replace heavy metals). But you will get better if you only chelate.

That is the sort of answer I was looking for!

Thank you so much.

Can you speak about your chelating experience? The side effects and benefits you experienced? Perhaps you've posted it already but I'm too foggy to remember.

 

[Johnmac]

* Why the lemon juice and fruit juice? Would it not work with water alone?

* Why do you think you experienced such a thing?

Thanks for the questions:

Yes it would work without juice (water only), just not as tasty. The few drops of lemon juice are a Cutler recommendation to ensure the pH is high enough for it to be effective. Your cadmium won't come out if pH is much below 7.

I've no real idea why I experienced relief from thiols from the Simplified Methylation Protocol. However although Cutler himself disagrees, it seems clear to me that some people (a minority) can't chelate successfully without addressing methylation.

 

[LivingwithFibro]

Thanks for the questions:

Yes it would work without juice (water only), just not as tasty. The few drops of lemon juice are a Cutler recommendation to ensure the pH is high enough for it to be effective. Your cadmium won't come out if pH is much below 7.

I've no real idea why I experienced relief from thiols from the Simplified Methylation Protocol. However although Cutler himself disagrees, it seems clear to me that some people (a minority) can't chelate successfully without addressing methylation.

Ooh, I'll be adding the lemon juice then

And then there are people who say that they cannot fix their methylation unless they do chelation therapy so I'm guessing the arrow go both ways?

Thank you very much

 

[TheChosenOne]

The biggest side effects are related to the lack of sleep. I usually feel much better the first few days and much worse the last few days.

 

[Johnmac]

Ooh, I'll be adding the lemon juice then

And then there are people who say that they cannot fix their methylation unless they do chelation therapy so I'm guessing the arrow go both ways?

Thank you very much

Actually, I got my wires crossed - sorry. The lemon juice is to ensure the pH is right so the chelators don't degrade. From memory, this especially applies to DMSA.

The thing to do if you want the ALA to work against cadmium is to get your own kidney pH around 7 by monitoring urine pH & taking (for example) bicarb.

The methylation/chelation relationship is undoubtedly real, tho the details are pretty speculative at present. But yep, I'm sure there are those who can't progress with methylation till they chelate.

 

[LivingwithFibro]

Actually, I got my wires crossed - sorry. The lemon juice is to ensure the pH is right so the chelators don't degrade. From memory, this especially applies to DMSA.

The thing to do if you want the ALA to work against cadmium is to get your own kidney pH around 7 by monitoring urine pH & taking (for example) bicarb.

The methylation/chelation relationship is undoubtedly real, tho the details are pretty speculative at present. But yep, I'm sure there are those who can't progress with methylation till they chelate.

It's all down to trial and error for some things I suppose.