Extremly bad reaction to b12, please help!

[Gondwanaland]

I agree with @WoolPippi
You seem to be having a serotonin overload and you can't degrade it as fast as it is needed. WoolPippi and I are +/+MAO-A and this is a problem when neurotransmitters are overly stimulated by the methylation protocol.

Mouth swishes with salt or sodium bicarbonate are a great relief. Just 1/8 tsp in a glass of water of either one is enough. ANd bicarb foot soaks are heaven

 

[Changexpert]

I totally agree with what @WoolPippi said.

When I was taking 500 mcg of mb12, I also drank a lot of coconut water and ate many bananas for potassium/magnesium. Coincidentally, I started drinking a lot of water and eventually increased the intake to 5L per day. At that time, I did not know anything about methylation; I was blindly taking supplements that were advertised to "cure hair loss."

Mb12, folic acid, high potassium consumption (at least 400 mg a day from coconut water), a lot of water intake, and extreme sweating from exercise all depleted sodium level in my body. Decrease in sodium level led to low stomach acid production, resulting in severe digestive issues. Heartburn, dysphagia, and painful hemorrhoids were indeed scary. In addition, my hair loss accelerated to an unmanageable rate.

Recently, I've been drinking water with Himalayan sea salt when I am at home, which helped me drastically with digestive issues. It's been three months since I've been consuming salt water, and I no longer suffer from dysphagia, heartburn, and hemorrhoids. Only digestive issue I have still is constipation and some stool issue (odor, texture, floating), but I hope to see improvements sometime. Sodium also replenishes electrolytes after sweating, so it is a must have minerals.

Do not blindly follow a protocol that's floating on the web. Always gauge how your body feels on weekly or even daily basis. Only way to better health is to go through constant battles of judgment.

 

[Stebor]

Hello all, I just wanted to give all you helpful people an update on my situation.. I went to doctor yesterday, he couldn't help me at all. He took som blood samples, and checked my bp (which were to high). He blamed anxiety attacks, and said that b12 couldn't do this to a person

I went home and saw the advice that some of you had written me, about the sodium "mouth swishes", and did that yesterday, while trying to lay down and relax. And it has helped me a whole lot!! I still don't feel like myself at all, and I'm proberbly still dehydrated. But the panic has come down immensely, and I can think a whole lot better now, the anxiety attacks aren't as bad anymore, and the wired feeling is not as bad anymore..

So, I really want to thank those of you who recommended sodium, you've seriously helped me. I'm really grateful. I wouldn't know what to do, if I didn't get that advice.

It could very well be serotinin overload. Unrelated to this b12 incident, I have long thought that my serotonin level is completely out of balance, and have been for some years now. I suffer from this everyday with lots of different symptoms, and it's all because of medication use earlier in my life.. My serotonin was proberbly to high to begin with, before even trying b12.

And I proberbly have adrenal problems as well.. It's all a mess, but at least I'm feeling better today, than I did these previous days..

@WoolPippi, I want to thank you for taking the time to give a really thoroughly explanation and advice to another "internet stranger", your posts has really helped..

So thank you all!!

 

[WoolPippi]

pfieeuw! glad you feel a bit better.

I don't feel comfortable at all, having leaned in so heavily. I'm glad this time my ideas made some sense but a next time I will not post like this.

Please don't ever dive into protocols or internet advice again without understanding some of the dynamics of the system you're about to tweak. This includes our advise for salt.

Hey, we've now all learned that you too have a sensitive body, join the club
This can work to your advantage though. You can take just a fraction of any remedy/drug/supplement you're interested in and find out if your body reacts to it well before embarking on a course with said remedy/drug/supplement.
You can even hold something in your hand and ask: "will this help me recover?" and listen if your gut feeling answers.

Today you experience that, in all its illness, your body is resilient. It didn't keel over and thankfully works with whatever you're giving it now. So fast as it recovered! You can be proud of it and use its robustness to gain more health

 

[Gondwanaland]

He blamed anxiety attacks, and said that b12 couldn't do this to a person

Only a few integrative doctors now about the balance between B vitamins, electrolytes and neurotransmitters.

I think you will like a bicarb foot soak

 

[Stebor]

I definitely understand what you are saying. But I'm really grateful to you, because my doctor didn't help me, or know what to do. I was totally lost, I didn't know anything. If you haven't given me that advice, I don't know how it would have ended, you and your advice definitely saved me. So you should definitely feel proud about this, and not uncomfortable, because I am really glad that you overstepped your own boundaries in this case

I'm still struggling today tho, but several of the mental issues is so much better. It's a physical struggle now as well, tiredness, the thirst ect. But I'm positive that it will eventually pass also..

I realise now that it was stupid, but I really thought that I was ready for the protocol, I've read so much about it, I must have gone through the original thread several times before starting. But before I started, my focus and worries were definitely more on lacking Potassium than anything else. And when it all hit me that thursday afternoon, I couldn't think straight at all, I was way to panicky. More than anything now, I'm quite sad about the situation, because I had high hopes that this would help me..

With what I've been through (Not only related to this), with medication specially and different kind of supplements, I don't know if I'll ever try making myself better again. I just can't seem to figure it all out. And unfortunately, it's very difficult, if not impossible, to find people or specialists who knows about what's going on with me.

So once again thank you!!

@Gondwanaland I ordered the bicarb salt yesterday, so it should be on the way, thanks for the advice

 

[Stebor]

@WoolPippi, I just have a couple of more question, if you don't mind..

You wrote that it took you about 6 days to get rid of your mB12 brain chemistry, when you tried mb12 for the first time. When it finally was over, did you return completely to baseline, without the need for any supplements that you've might have needed during those 6 days ?? (potassium or sodium ect)

And what were those 6 days like, did you suffer from anxiety attacks, dizzyness or??


Thanks

 

[WoolPippi]

@WoolPippi, I just have a couple of more question, if you don't mind..

You wrote that it took you about 6 days to get rid of your mB12 brain chemistry, when you tried mb12 for the first time. When it finally was over, did you return completely to baseline, without the need for any supplements that you've might have needed during those 6 days ?? (potassium or sodium ect)

And what were those 6 days like, did you suffer from anxiety attacks, dizzyness or??


Thanks

yes, I got back to base line. No harm done.
But I was stark raving mad in the mean time! Hormonal. Wired. Tired of life. Convinced I and the world will never mount up to anything. Antsy. Desperate. Anxious. Ambitious. Planning world domination. Mush for brains. It was awful.

Luckily I assumed this was all due to toxins in the brain. Because the body cannot process the toxins fast enough and/or there’s die-off. I know which DNA is faulty in me (see my signature) and how this hinders the methylation cycle and the expel of waste from cells. Firing up the methylation cycle with mB12 and Metafolin just overwhelmed the system.

(which is the mistake your doctor made yesterday. He's thinking "B12 can't do this" but you actually took mB12, the already processed form, bypassing the bodily regulator. Your body had no way of tempering the amount of B12 it got flushed with and it all went straight into your cells, firing up the methylation cycle, making your cells basically "throw up" into your blood stream and flooding the system including your brain with toxins.)

In those mad days I tried to sit it out. I breathed through it, took lots of Valerian root and also extra Progesteron and Cortisol. Both are anti-stress hormones. (Don't assume Progesteron is a sex-hormone, it is not.)
I also took supplements that my methylation cycle burns through fast: Selenium, Molybdenum, Jodium, Mangaan, Zinc, Chromium, vit D3 and the mineral Lithium (not the drug but the supplement). I still take these, even when not methylating.

Before I took mB12 I had laid a foundation for months/years and had reached optimal digestion (chicken broth), optimal waste system (HCL, Lymph system), fixed my Zinc-Copper balance (awful Copper Dump experience the previous Summer) and good hormonal balance/adrenal support (HRT). And I was actively addressing the nervous system that's been in Fight or Flight most of my life. (I've snapped out of that. At age 44 btw. After severe ME for 6 years. I'm now in Rest & Digest.)

Methylation was only bad that first time, at 1200 mcg of mB12 and 800 mcg Metafolin, two days in a row. It got easier and easier after that (at 250 mcg per two weeks) now that my cells are able to dump their waste gradually.

So I'm sure you'll get good results with mB12 too. Just in lower doses than Freddd's protocol.
I don't understand the Potassium in that protocol though, but I'm coming from adrenal issues and am very suspicious of Potassium because of that. Which is the part I recognized in your story, adrenals in distress.

I want to encourage you to try and figure out your personal flavour of ME, you can be the expert on you. No one else will be, unfortunately. You can try out a little bit of this, a little bit of that. Your sensitive body will let you know if it's good or not. There are numerous avenues you can explore and each will give you some gain. Sleep, diet, digestion, hormones, supplements, relaxed mind, relaxed nervous system, allergies, DNA, there are so many dials to try. Before you know it things start to make sense and you see the coherence between the various elements and you can create results because you know which things to tweak on that marvellous system of yours.
A system, I may add, that held up very well the past few days. It did all the things it was supposed to do. As did you.

(Sorry I write such long posts)

 

[Stebor]

Thank you once again, for your long and informative post (I like your long posts, I'm really learning something everytime). Plus you give me hope, which I can use these days. I still feel like I've ruined something, that I'll never feel like myself again.

But it's good to hear that you returned to baseline, and I'm glad that you are doing better these days.. I was just getting worried (which, as I'm sure you can tell, I get quite easily), because I feel some of the more worrying symptoms are returning. But I'll try to relax, and not think about it for a couple of days, I'm still not sure if I should keep supplementing with Niacin, sodium mouthwash or potassium (Not the tablets this time, but bananas, orange juice).. I have only done the sodium mouthwash today, and not touched the other stuff..

Reading about your experiences from the last post, it hit me, that I proberbly need to heal/help my adrenals when I overcome this mb12 reaction. They are proberbly much more important for my well being than I initially thought.

 

[Stebor]

Hello again,

I just wanted to ask you all of some advice, since I've tried to figure this out myself which I couldn't, and you all seem really knowledgeable.

Today, I felt really, really tired. I'm getting more and more dehydrated, and I still can't keep water in me.. So I searched around to look for answers.. Most places said that it could be because I'm still low on potassium, which I thought proberbly could be right, since I haven't taken anything,for a couple of days. And unfortunately, I seriously don't know any better. I've never had any problems with any supplements or foods before in my life.

So I grinded 2 pills of potassium gluconate (99mg each), and mixed the powder into some water. I thought 2 pills couldn't hurt anything, even if I wasn´t deficient. Boy was I wrong!! After about 10-15 minuttes, I had drunk about half of if, I experienced the worst panic I've ever experienced in my life. I literally thought I was going to die, the reaction from my body was beyond anything that I've ever experienced before. I wouldn't even call it a panic attack, because it felt like my whole body was on fire, and I almost passed out.

I then rushed to my kitchen to take some salt and do the Mouth swishes that some of you recommended a couple of days ago. It helped me again, it calmed me enough to think, take some more, and lay down. It's a bit better now, but I'm still struggling a get deal even here a couple of hours after the episode, sometimes it's like, it's coming back with full force.

What does all this mean, do any of you know?? Do I have to be carefull of potassium or supplements for the rest of my life, or what about potassium rich foods, or sportsdrinks. What could possible trigger this extreme reaction, which were way, way worse than anything I had dealt with this last week.

Is it because my adrenals are still suffering badly, and once I get back to baseline (if that'll happend), then again I can drink/take stuff as I normally would?

My doctor said that my blood samples were fine, and didn't show anything, so I can't rely on him for help or answers..

I do hope some of you have some insights to this, because I can't find my way out of this mess that I have put myself in..

Thanks..

 

[ahmo]

I haven't read every response here. But I don't think I've seen any references to magnesium. You might benefit from epsom salts, initially in a footbath, rather than committing to a full body bath. Once you're intervening with salt and potassium, magnesium needs to be considered. Hope you feel better soon.

 

[Stebor]

Thank you for your answer ahmo, I appreciate it. Unfortunetely I'm not sure if you can even get Epsom Salt in my country. But I'll definitely look into when I feel a little better. Today has been the worst, and I'm actually considering going to the ER right now.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I'm not sure if you can even get Epsom Salt in my country

I thought that too, but it turned out I can buy it by the kilo very cheaply. I my country I can go to a compounding pharmacy and order 200mg capsules of a number of forms of magnesium with no prescription required. Regular drugstores sell 200g containers of Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate also known as bitter or sour salts) - believe me , they are pretty common.

For electrolyte imbalances blood tests are pretty much useless. They can change pretty quickly during the day. Unless you draw blood like 3x daily for testing every day.

If you keep taking potassium right now you will only worsen your imbalance. Yes, you will be able to take potassium again, but now you just have to take a break from it. You probably have very low thiamin (vit B1) levels right now.

Why again do you want to take so much potassium when you have been advised to take some salt and sodium bicarbonate foot baths?

 

[Stebor]

Hey Gondwanaland,

Well I feel really embarrassed and stupid now doing it. But it was because I didn't know what to do about my dehydration issues, I just wanted to see if it would help with anything (It seemed like a good idea in my panic stated mind).. I only took about 100-150 mg of it, and after about 15 minutes, I think I nearly went into shock (I know this sounds kind of insane, but it's true), the andrenaline was insanely high, and it just came out of nowhere. Never in my life have I experienced something like that, and I sure hope I never will again. I just layed on the floor shaking, trying to take some salt (I didn't know what else to do).

I still feel really bad, that's why I'm considering to go to the ER tonight. Something is definitely wrong here, it's been way worse today, than the last week combined, and I shouldn't really keep feeling like this. This is more than an electrolyte imbalance I'm afraid. The panic can sometimes be unbearable, plus there is lots of other symptoms.

I have taking the salt swishes several times today, and yesterday, and I also got the bicarbonate foot baths today. I tried one tonight. But I'm in really bad shape, so I couldn't really feel anything after it (I don't even know if you are supposed to).

 

[Gondwanaland]

I think I nearly went into shock (I know this sounds kind of insane, but it's true)

Well the actual name of too much potassium is metabolic schock.

I still feel really bad, that's why I'm considering to go to the ER tonight.

I have been exactly where you are right now and 3 trips to the ER haven't helped me. What really helped me was magnesium oxide orally to bowel tolerance and bicarb baths. If you go to the ER ask them to check for metabolic acidosis. How is your body temperature?

I couldn't really feel anything after it (I don't even know if you are supposed to).

You are supposed to feel relief. If you have a bathtub you can try a bicarb bath, it is very relaxing. Use about 1/2 cup of bicarb in warm water and stay in there for about 15 min. If it gets uncomfortable get out before that.

 

[Stebor]

Ok, maybe I didn't use enough of the bicarb, I only used about a tablespoon..

What did they say to you at the ER? And how long did it take before the magnesium started to help? Did mb12 do this to you also?

Sorry for all the questions, but I don't really understand any of this..

My temperature is quite normal now I think..

 

[Gondwanaland]

What did they say to you at the ER?

They didn't know what to check from my symptoms, and at the time (exactly one year ago) neither did I know what was happening to me. If you go get your uric acid checked.

And how long did it take before the magnesium started to help?

1/2 hour

Ok, maybe I didn't use enough of the bicarb, I only used about a tablespoon..

Yes, I recommend 1 Tbs at first for you to gauge your reaction. Always start slow... In addition, some people get a candida flare from an alkalizing protocol.

My temperature is quite normal now I think..

At the ER my temperature was 34.6°C, very low.

 

[Stebor]

Ok, thank you. I'm glad you're feeling better now. I'll write down what you have told me, so I'll know what to ask them..

Btw how did your ever figure out what to do about all this? If they didn't do anything at the ER..

Thanks for all your help.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Btw how did your ever figure out what to do about all this?

I got help from a Phoenix Rising forum member @ahmo

 

[Stebor]

Are there any foods high in magnesium that I could eat, insted of using supplements?? Because I can't get any Epsom Salt before next week. And I don't think that I can take any supplements at this moment..