A New Decade of ME Research: The 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference 2016
Mark Berry presents the first in a series of articles on the 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference in London ...
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Copper dysregulation

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Thewonders92, Aug 28, 2017.

  1. NotThisGuy

    NotThisGuy Senior Member

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    Its like a high pressure in the eyes with impaired quality of sight when looking down (so turning the eyeballs down)
     
  2. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    No
     
  3. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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  4. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Thinking about the several levels of copper synergists

    collagen cross-linking: Biotin, Lysine, glycine

    immunity: fat-soluble vitamins

    hormonal (thyroid/sex hormones): zinc, iodine, selenium

    bone: calcium

    blood formation: B vitamins, iron, potassium, L-Histidine

    ceruloplasmin: vitamin A and B5

    glutathione/glutathione peroxidase: B2 B3 methionine Selenium http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/methionine-synthase.53957/

    chelators: molybdenum, vitamin C, sulfur (MSM chondroitin glucosamine), zinc, EDTA, citrate, Carnosine, Carcinine, penicillin, penicillamine, polyphenol oxidase (present in some fruit to prevent browning)

    More here at a pro-copper biased info compilation (haven't read it yet) http://skinbiology.com/copper-the-protective-antiaging-metal.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
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  5. bond

    bond

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    That's very interesting, I too have exactly the same copper deficiency+toxicity symptoms - high histamine, inability to tolerate antioxidants(probably low Cp or bioavailable iron), varicose veins.
    I've tried the classical toxicity/chelating protocols that are prescribed by HTMA analytics(zinc, molybdenum, manganese etc...) and also Morley Robbins root cause protocol, both to no avail. I've been actually getting worse on both protocols.

    I've got the feeling that adrenal function is crucial in copper bioavailability. It's interesting that B5 is frequently suggested for adrenal support, I wonder if the mechanism it works is by improving ceruloplasmin->reducing unbound copper->reducing stress.

    Also some HTMA specialists suggest that 'slow oxidisers' retain more copper but 'fast oxidisers' need more copper.

    Boron is also believed to raise ceruloplasmin but I've actually got worse taking it.
     
  6. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I just added above that L-Histidine is needed for RBC and WBC formation. Something to look into. I hope others will have more info on it.
     
  7. bond

    bond

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    @Gondwanaland what is the relation between B5 and histidine?
     
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Histidine is needed for hemoglobin synthesis

    ETA - B5 builds ceruloplasmin, also needed for RBC synthesis
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  9. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I have added some info to my replies above.
     
  10. bond

    bond

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    Thanks @Gondwanaland
    I've always wondered how accurate is when people say that some substance chelates or lowers another one.
    I guess usually the chelating effect is weak and lowering occurs only at cellular or liver level but never systematic - i.e. the copper will just be moved from one place in the body elsewhere.
     
  11. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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  12. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    As a potent copper antagonist, Molybdenum can't be overlooked.

    http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/minerals/molybdenum

    SInce it is crucial for a few important enzymes, it must be kept in balance within the body.

    Molybdenum is crucial when taking carnosine, and so is copper.

    To keep Cu and Mo in balance is the hardest thing I ever experienced.

    The role of Mo in the synthesis of RBCs, melatonin and bile acids is poorly studied.
     
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  13. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Also Molybdenum is key for hormone breakdown (steroids, thyroid). Lack or excess of Molybdenum itself can lead to copper dysregulation.

    ETA - I think Molybdenum also plays a role in Glutathione regeneration (sulfur metabolism)
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
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  14. bond

    bond

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    Anyone with copper toxicity/deficiency and experience with Rutin?
    There are some sources that suggest Rutin forms potent antioxidant complex with(unbound?) copper - Cu(Rut)Cl2 and also reduces copper level in the liver.
     
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  15. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I felt better when I 1st tried Rutin (cleared joint pain/bursitis), but felt poor in subsequent trials. I suppose at some point one shouldn't lower copper any further.

    However I felt a stronger copper antagonism from Hesperidin (oranges).
     
  16. Thewonders92

    Thewonders92

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    I have no way of giving clinical figures in regards to my health, as doctors will not test me for anything I had been treating. But I'm still completely well. I went from around a decade of worsening health, energy and mood to being able to work full time, exercise and get energy from it rather than lose energy, I've lost about 50lbs and don't have to balance and fight herx reactions when I try new supplements anymore.

    My only issues now are Anhedonia and lack of joy in life, I always knew the body would have to come first, then the mind. But I've got some significant issues with my dopaminergic system that I'm working on.

    But as far as physical illness or the worst of my chronic fatigue, it's a memory now, it's been quite a while now that I only improve, haven't had a slip up or return of symptoms since I balanced copper and got my gut health sorted out.

    I'll be coming back here soon once I've got some more time to start sharing again, I still spend most of my free time researching, and I'd like to try and help people get at least to where I'm at, it's a scary contrast to see how functional I am now vs the majority of my life.
     
  17. bond

    bond

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    An interesting post on copper-carnosine interactions and the long term effects.
     
  18. NotThisGuy

    NotThisGuy Senior Member

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    uhm.. did i missed a post from you in this thread?
    How did this miracle happen? Was it the copper or the carnosine?
    Can u post your list of supplements/medication?
    What helped you with your gut?
     
  19. NoelF

    NoelF

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    @Thewonders92 I'de be very interested to hear what made the difference for you? Was it the copper or the carnosine? I am now going through a copper dumping period after taking copper supplementation and wonder whether I should hang in or stop supplementing...
     
  20. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    CFS does not exist without copper dysfunction.
     

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