Sulfate Deficiency, Sulfur, PST, and Sulfate Reducing Bacteria?

[Changexpert]

If one is deficient in sulfate, but have a lot of sulfate reducing bacteria due to gut dysbiosis, what is the way out of this catch 22? Also, is taking sulfur or foods rich in sulfur same as taking sulfate?

Ever since I was on methylation protocol last year, my sulfur sensitivity heightened and never became normal again. Now, I can't even tolerate 75 mcg of biotin compared to 15,000 mcg I used to take. Similar reactions to B1 and methionine, which has sulfur. I am finding ALA chelation quite helpful, but not good enough. Besides avoiding high thiol foods, what are some options I have?

I am almost sure that I am low in PST enzymes, which would explain why I react so negatively to B6. B6 inhibits PST activity, which worsens phenol metabolism. What are the ways to strengthen this pathway? I am speculating that most supplements that strengthens liver function would be helpful, but I cannot take most of them due to other conditions I have.

Liver supplements that I react badly to
Mlik thistle (high salicylate)
GliSODin (sulfur)
Calcium D glucarate (not sure why)
Glycine (oxalate issue possibly)
Proline (same as glycine)
B vitamins
NAC (thiol)
Taurine (sulfur? not sure why)
Glutamine (problematic at high dose, excitotoxicity)
Cruciferous veggies (thiol)

I think there is a connection among sulfate, SRBs, PST, and sulfur for sure, but I don't know what that is exactly. Also, what would be the best protocol to tackle this? Your insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[dannybex]

There's a chance that some of the things you think you're reacting to say, because they're high in salicylates, may be due to another reason. I just say that from experience. There are a lot of 'gurus' out there, and they all seem to contradict each other, but at the same time, it IS wise to look into the contradictions and see what evidence there is to back up their claims.

Just as an example, Amy Yasko says one needs to restrict all sulfur, and even sulfate (which is bizarre IMHO), while Susan (Oxalate) Owens says she's misread the studies and insists sulfur and sulfate is essential for dealing with detoxification and health issues in general.

It's my understanding that b6 only inhibits the PST enzyme if there isn't enough magnesium available. When sufficient mag is given, then the inhibition is reversed.

I can't believe it's been four years since I read about this, but here's a link to a discussion about it from 2011:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/a-b-thread-is-more-always-better.11504/

I wasn't tolerating b6 well back then, and have only been able to take small amounts from time to time, but then the neuropathy returns. I thought b2 was helping, and it does, but still, the b6 (or p5p which I've tried recently) builds up.

Would be nice to be able to afford to see a doc who is knowledgeable in these areas!

Good luck.

 

[picante]

Ever since I was on methylation protocol last year, my sulfur sensitivity heightened and never became normal again.

I've experienced the same thing, and I'm looking for answers, since I'm not tolerating high-thiol foods, and sometimes I can't eat anything without experiencing immediate helium-balloon bloatation and drugged brain. I believe this is some combination of ammonia, glutamate, hydrogen sulfide, and sulfite. (And possibly peroxynitrite.)

What are your symptoms from eating sulfur-containing foods? Are you hypothyroid?

 

[ahmo]

@picante are you using something for the ammonia? Arginine, citrulline, ornithine, malic acid?

I've added garlic back into my diet, though not daily. I haven't tried other high-thiol, since I'm not eating green veg, and my body says 'no' to eggs. This ability to eat garlic without my face erupting comes after my 3 interventions of this year. No telling what has been the main reason, or if all 3 have interacted. 2-month Candida/SIBO/parasite purge; FMN form of B2; 3-day water fast to reset immune system.

Hope you track this down soon. Also, the more antioxidants I add in, the less peroxynitrite effects. My 3 most recent additions are French Melon extract (SOD-producing), bilberry, and acai. I've been using these less than a week, and so far can't determine the differences, have been pretty much using AM/midday/PM, shifting between the 3. But I'm clearly less impacted by peroxy, more comfortable. I fee pretty normal, though I have to reat a lot, can't do much activity. But none of the headachey stuff.

 

[picante]

@picante are you using something for the ammonia? Arginine, citrulline, ornithine, malic acid?

OKG, TMG, manganese for the ammonia. Yucca makes me worse.

For the glutamate I'm trying lots of remedies: Thyroid (T3), Mg threonate, transdermal Mg chloride, ionic Mg, Iflora (contains Lactobacillus brevis), Pinella, Curcumin, Olive Leaf Extract, coconut oil, DHEA, B3.

For sulfation: molybdenum, TMG, B6.

@Changexpert & I had an extensive conversation about all of this today, and I'm hoping to start a thread on it tomorrow, because I've been ferreting around for the underlying mechanisms, and have found some stuff.

 

[ahmo]

Sorry your search for anti-bloatation continues

 

[renski]

I'm still trying to work this out myself but some things to help:

- lower your oxalate levels
- Take B1/Benfotiamine/B3/P5P
- Epsom salt baths
- Magnesium/potassium
- Antioxidants
- Minerals, molybdenum etc

 

[aquariusgirl]

If I had a sulfate quesiton, I would ask Susan Owens, who used to run a yahoo group called Sulfate Stories and now runs the Trying Low Oxalates facebook group.

 

[renski]

No surprises, the oxalates mess up transsulfuration and sulfate levels