Holy lab results, Batman! B6, NK cells, Histamine, oh my!

[almost]

I did a number of lab tests recently at Quest Diagnoistics, things my usual clinic doesn't do or I wanted to see results before putting them on my official record. Some were things I was curious about, others things I learned about here. There were a few that stood out. I'll attach below.

I'm looking for what experiences you have had with these. Have you had any similar results? Opinions (I won't take anything as medical advice) on what they mean? I know from reading here that some of these issues have come up, and I value your experience.

I will be going over these with my primary doc, but honestly I doubt he'll know much about what to do with them, and of course it takes a bit of time just to be seen. Specialists? 2nd quarter, next year at the earliest. Anyway, here you go:

My Gastro doc had run the Immunoglobulin A, and it came back low. That was a different lab, Labcorp, and a few days earlier, so maybe some natural variation there.

B12 was also high (1460, which is not too far above lab range), but I had been supplementing it strongly on the advice of my functional med doc, who is now retired. I don't know if that can affect B6, I would expect not, but the body is not a simple machine.

I discuss the circumstances around the B6 in this post, although I think it best to move any discussion to this thread.

Again, I appreciate any thoughts. Thanks.

 

[lyran]

You may benefit from IVIG M -therapy (what was it called? there is a name for it which I can't remember). IVIG seems to stabilize mast cells also: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-15455-w

 

[Violeta]

Your histamine may be high because you aren't able to use B6.

B6 can be high if you are deficient in B2. Same with B12.

 

[Violeta]

How can I increase my IgM naturally?


Limited studies suggest that the following supplements may help increase IgM levels:

1. Lycopene (in human and animal studies) [24, 25]
2. Ginseng (in animal studies) [26, 27, 28]
3. Astragalus (in animal studies) [29, 30]

 

[almost]

You may benefit from IVIG M -therapy (what was it called? there is a name for it which I can't remember). IVIG seems to stabilize mast cells also: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-15455-w

@lyran, I've seen people talk about that and have been curious. I think I would need a rheumatologist or immunologist on board. That seems to be tricky. I'll have to learn more. Thank you.

Your histamine may be high because you aren't able to use B6.

Thanks @Violeta, The liposomal B-complex I was using also has 50mg of B2, so I would think given I obviously absorb the B6, the B2 is also absorbed and there would be plenty. Availability? Can't speak to that, and if I've learned anything on this site, it is that just 'cuz it is in the blood doesn't mean it is in the cell.

I saw those recommendations on self decode, and may give lycopene a try. I would just eat the tomatoes (love them) but they are high in free glutamate which is a problem for me. I appreciate the tips!

 

[datadragon]

Supplementation with high concentrations of the pyridoxine form of Vitamin B6 competitively inhibits the active Pyridoxal 5' phosphate (P5P) form which actually leads to decreased vitamin B6 function rather than enhancing it https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0887233317301959?via=ihub

A high B6 can be from taking too much of the pyridoxine form of B6 since that form competitively inhibits the active form. It can also be from a zinc, B2 or Magnesium deficiency since Vitamin B6 normally needs Zinc, Magnesium, and Vitamin B2 (flavin mononucleotide (FMN); also known as riboflavin-5’-phosphate) in the conversion to active B6 (P5P). So due to a zinc deficiency for example you then can have lots of unconverted B6 building up causing the high levels. I recently found also that even if you take the active form it apparently may not be able to get into the cell and be utilized as I was mentioning here with a zinc deficiency. the final tissue uptake of circulating PLP requires a different enzyme that has zinc as a co-factor. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...-b6-production-utilization.57030/post-2440220 and https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...-b6-production-utilization.57030/post-2440317

Vitamin B12 involved with methylation is inactivated as a consequence of high itaconate (itaconate shunt). "itaconyl-CoA is a cofactor-inactivating, substrate-analog inhibitor of the mitochondrial B12-dependent methylmalonyl-CoA mutase (MUT). That appears to be related to zinc as well. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...-van-konynenburg-documents.90623/post-2441698 Zinc is also a cofactor for glutathione and that helps with B12 conversion and utilization, helping with methylation. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/conversations/adenosyl-or-hydroxocobalamin.84675/#convMessage-391980 and https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...s-chronic-fatigue-syndrome.90582/post-2443749

Zinc uptake is also lowered as a normal downstream effect of inflammation/infection from the acute phase of an inflammatory response, but is also made less available to utilize as well when pro inflammatory cytokines are present. I mentioned only a bit of that here for example. So if your c-reactive protein levels are high you may be dealing with it for that reason. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...-b6-production-utilization.57030/post-2440317

Mast cells are inflammatory immune cells, which produce various inflammatory factors including TNF-α, IL-6, histamine and tryptase. Butyrate can reduce mast cells to secret these pro-inflammatory factors through HDAC inhibition which also requires zinc. Methylation can help lower histamine, but histamine is a bit more complex than just a zinc deficiency for example. I mentioned some things on histamine here to help that dont require zinc until that is looked at also. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...r-sensitivity-to-allergies.90350/post-2437850 and a couple posts that can test methylation. https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...-2-active-forms-pure-water.90012/post-2438156

 

[wastwater]

I’m hoping to get some more testing done but would then wonder what it means
Is this mecfs or something else

 

[almost]

I hear you @wastwater , Here's to you having the testing you want. I think you could figure it out.

 

[wastwater]

Lol

 

[Blazer95]

What Symptoms do you have mostly?

My IgM is isolated reduced aswell and I have atypical CFS (very Low brainfog, No light sensitive, only physical fatigue)

My NK-T-Cells (different than NK Cells) are severly reduced.

We might have some Common stuff going on thats why i am interested. Are you experiencing a Lot of cardiovascular and muscular Problems?

 

[almost]

Hi @Blazer95 . Yes, cardio and muscular problems are primary, and I believe drive my fatigue. I think there is overlap with CFS, which may be concurrent, as I also am dealing with mitrochondrial dysfunction (energy creation). Cardio issues are are mainly arrthymias right now, which come and go. Muscle weakness in legs is also a problem. I have been light and sound sensitive my entire life.

Major medical has no answers for me, which is common among the community here. I took up the diagnostic myself, and with old fashioned differential diagnosis and lots of bloodwork, my leading hypothesis is late onset anesthesia gravis, from life-long ocular MG, with concurrent CFS. If this doesn't prove out, then bulbar dysfunction / dystrophy or acute autonomic sensory neuropathy would be next to prove out. There are probably other things too.

What seems to trip up my cardiologists is their insistence on viewing my cardio symptoms as issues to treat rather than seeing them as symptoms of something larger. I get it that this is their wheelhouse, but it is still small thinking to me.

I'll read your intro posts to see what your history is. If you have more to share, please do.

 

[Blazer95]

That Sounds interesting. Scholar medicine also has No answer for me until now. There is however a Centre for rare diseases and i am very hopefull they can Help.

So to get into this deeper I have:
- Low diastolic BP and high systolic BP, specially when doing Something active. Rest: 135/70, doing Something: 160/77. No raise in Diastole.
- Amyloid A is at 12mg/l above ref (<6)
- NK-T-Cells at 2/mcgL ref: 30-270
- mildly elevated Calcium at 2.6mmol
- mildly reduced Lymphocytes in General
- mildly reactive leucos
- mildly reduced HDL
- reduced igM in serum and Liquor

Some doctors Said its psychosomatic, they be Wildin.

I have tried every Supplement under the sun, tried to eat different nothing worked.

For some weird reason Doxycyclin Made me feel almost normal for 2 weeks before crashing again. Now It has 0 effect.

 

[almost]

Yours is interesting as well. The isolated high systolic BP is usually an old person's disease, so that should certainly be given attention by your docs. The NKT Cells being low, is curious also. Have you had your thyroid bloodwork done (such as TSH, T3, T4, etc)? Have you been checked for viruses / bacteria such as Coxsackie, EBV, Borrelia? (I recently tested positive for one Coxsackie B.) Selective IgM deficiency is something I'm looking at, but isn't high on my list given the other things on my list, but may be a larger issue for you. Our weakened immune system has its hands full with what the world brings.

 

[Blazer95]

I have Had a LTT positive for CMV but the diagnostic value of this Test is still unclear.

I have Had a positive igG for Borrelia and have tried numerous abx. But only Doxycyclin Had a positive effect and that one didnt Last very Long

The sad Thing is they keep brushing the high systolic pressure away AS If it was nothing. I am very angry because of that. Medical aid Here in Germany has become really Bad in the past years. It used to be good arround 2001 but it has gotten so much down the drain.

 

[almost]

Well @Blazer95 , I'm sorry for your struggles, however, you have come to a good place. You and your docs have a challenge ahead, Medical here isn't much better, I'm afraid. Amazing things can be done, but usually only if it is no more complex than an 'a means treatment b' thing.

Given your history with Borrelia, I'd suggest scanning the forums for Lyme/Borrelia threads. I've read a few and there are some knowledgeable people here, and these things can play hide and seek in the body, and be difficult to eradicate. One other thing to consider is Bartonella, and here is a thread about that.

Best of luck to you. Keep us posted.