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Years of low libido and ED. Relation with Methylation - Pyroluria.

Messages
32
Actually, the poster is advising taking folinic acid, not folic acid.
Folinic acid is a perfectly good substitute for methylfolate, but there is usually no reason to take both.

What you're already taking looks fine, except for the large doses of copper and zinc. There's no reason to take such large doses of copper. Since you're taking magnesium, you might want to consider taking calcium as well. The body needs a stable ratio of calcium-to-magnesium for nerves to function properly. For me, I need 2.5 times as much calcium as magnesium in order to avoid symptoms of calcium deficiency.

Hope this helps.

Thank you! I've heard that most people have excess of calcium thus don't need supplementing with it, is that true? Does calcium blood test show actual calcium, is the test useful? My calcium was 9.3 ( normal range is 8.7 - 10.2)

I take 800mg (400 x 2) of magnesium Citrate per day and 2Meq (1Meq x 2) of Potassium Citrate. How much calcium, if your opinion, do I need?

I'm actually having diarrhea for the past 3 weeks, not sure why. Can this be from lack of calcium?

I'm taking zinc because I have slightly increased pyrroles, and my doctor said he doesn't mind me taking my zinc with copper in it. It's 30mg zing plus 2mg copper in one capsule, so he told me to up the dose to 2 capsules after my first pyrrole test. Do you think I don't need copper at all?
 

Pyrrhus

Senior Member
Messages
4,172
Location
U.S., Earth
Thank you! I've heard that most people have excess of calcium thus don't need supplementing with it, is that true? Does calcium blood test show actual calcium, is the test useful?

Good questions.
1) The typical western diet does indeed contain more than enough calcium for a healthy person.

2) The blood test for calcium may give you a very rough idea of the body's total calcium, but it's really more useful in determining if you have a problem regulating your calcium levels. Your blood calcium levels are highly regulated, from the parathyroid gland to the kidneys. But, if you have a localized calcium deficiency in a specific part of your brain, testing your blood calcium levels won't really be that relevant.

3) Some people who have supplemented with magnesium for a long time develop symptoms of calcium deficiency. Once they start supplementing with calcium, these symptoms disappear. All the while, their blood calcium levels look fine.

I'm actually having diarrhea for the past 3 weeks, not sure why. Can this be from lack of calcium?

Absolutely. Magnesium speeds up digestion, while calcium slows it down. Also magnesium relaxes muscles while calcium can tighten muscles. (I am very much oversimplifying here quite a bit.)

For me personally, I take 160mg of magnesium per day, with 400mg calcium.
For me personally, I need 2.5 times as much calcium as magnesium to avoid the symptoms of calcium deficiency.

I'm taking zinc because I have slightly increased pyrroles, and my doctor said he doesn't mind me taking my zinc with copper in it. It's 30mg zing plus 2mg copper in one capsule, so he told me to up the dose to 2 capsules after my first pyrrole test. Do you think I don't need copper at all?

I would defer to your doctor here. But another doctor might point out that the RDA for zinc, including food and supplements, is only 8-11mg per day and the RDA for copper is only 0.9mg per day.

Hope this helps.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,384
Location
Austria
Personally too had low zinc, therefore increased up to 70 mg/d of elemental. Following the advice to balance such high doses of zinc with copper, I too took 2 mg/d of copper for some time. Which I regret, since copper shoot up much above normal, and I haven't been able in many years to get to a healthy copper/zinc ratio down again.

Calcium needs are highly individual. Personally suffer from a severe Mg-deficiency, and supplemented in average 1.75 g/d of elemental oral Mg, additional to about 650 mg/d of calcium during the last 11 years. However, in the end only additional almost monthly Mg-sulfate IVs remedied my Mg-deficiency.

Here some notes on individual calcium needs based on different autonomous-nervous system metabolic types by the late cancer Dr. Nickolas Gonzales:

Dominant sympathetic types: Typ ‘A’ personalities, disciplined; mostly solid cancers; do good on much plant based foods: fruits, vegies, seeds, grains, nuts, plant based oils: hemp, flax; Vitamin B1, B2, B3, 8:1 ratio magnesium to calcium, high vitamin C & D; but not on much meat protein, no b12, no choline, no B5, no zinc, no selenium, no fish oil. Yes to beta Carotene, chromium, folic acid, riboflavin, thiamin,& niacin

Parasympathetic: types are rather creative with unconventional ‘formal’ education; mostly blood-based cancers; do good on lots of meat and a ketogenic diet, saturated fats, fats from fish oils, Calcium 10-15 ratio to magnesium (high magnesium causes depression), Vitamin B12, B5, Choline; not as good on grains or seed. Need zinc & selenium, not good with other large Vitamin B doses.

Mixed or balanced types: suffer rather from allergies and fatigue.
 
Messages
32
Pyrrhus, pamojja,

Thanks, both of you. I'll try to supplement with calcium, maybe starting at 400-500mg. What are the best forms of calcium?

But what puzzles me is how do I know whether I have calcium or magnesium deficiency, since symptoms of both match exactly? What if I need more magnesium and none calcium added? From above two characteristics I better match the Parasympathetic one, although not by a big margin.

I'll get zinc and copper tested tomorrow. I too suspect that I'm taking too much copper but the tests on these seem to be more or less accurate, so I'll see what comes up.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,384
Location
Austria
I'll get zinc and copper tested tomorrow.

Testing is the way to go. See for example my copper and zinc results of the last decade in this post.

For calcium deficiency see for example here, and overdose here. In my case sufficient vitamin D3 alone brought deficient serum calcium and PTH levels up, and stayed there. Despite severe Mg-deficiency. Took 2 years till serum levels came up from below normal.

I try to minimise calcium from supplements, but still get about 650 mg from mineral water (with 1g of Mg per liter), calcium pantothenate and multi-vitamin.

Heard the best form would be from HydroxyApatite. But be aware, too much calcium from supplements doesn't end up in the bones, but will clog the arteries. Additional supplemental vitamin K2 might prevent that.

From above two characteristics I better match the Parasympathetic one, although not by a big margin.

Personally been a low fat vegetarian from age 10 to 40, where serious chronic disease and disabilty hit. Added daily eggs, fish and healthy fats (~70% of calories) back in. And experienced many remissions again. Much later even some beef every 2 months. I seem to be mixed, though my diet is still mostly plant-based. More on finding one's diet here and here.

Personally suffer from a severe Mg-deficiency, and supplemented in average 1.75 g/d of elemental oral Mg, additional to about 650 mg/d of calcium during the last 11 years.

When medicolously calculating my diet found, got 1.1 g of calcium and 630 mg of Mg per day already from diet alone. The RDAs in disease states are completely useless.

By the way, I've the impression you use prescription potassium. I try to avoid, because they usually are in huge boluses which might irritate and harm the stomach lining. I used up to 2.5 g/d of elemental oral potassium, but only in powder form, so it can be completely disolved in water and taken throughout the day.

(potassium bicarb powder contains 36% elemental potassium
potassium citrate 39%
potassium chloride 52%)
- from my diet I already get 4.2 g of potassium per day.
 
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GreenMachineX

Senior Member
Messages
362
I’m in a pretty similar situation as OP. I’ve had low libido most of my adult life (age 36 now). I’m prescribed telmisartan, testosterone and synthroid (literally last week given Armour to try since it’s been years since I’ve used it). I’ve been using 1 cap of Thorne’s 2 Per Day and adding 400mcg methylfolate and having to eat 100g spinach and 5 eggs for breakfast every morning to prevent deficiency symptoms. When I would slack on something, folate deficiency symptoms would return, for example, angular cheilitis. I’m one of the rare people that needs a lot more folate than b12.

Ever since being 18 years old, I’ve had mild hypertension. It’s normal when I wake up, but throughout the day ranges from 130-150/70, thus the reason for telmisartan. For the past 4 years, I’ve had sleep issues that would wake me up in the middle of the night for a couple hours or just keep me up from 2am until I need to get up. I also have extremely tight muscles resulting in impingement syndrome and achy joints. I also have an unnatural energy that keeps me going far more than everyone in my life that began after starting to supplement methyl vitamins, but without them, I can’t get off the bed. I’m thinking methylfolate may not be right for me. I also believe either nitric oxide production in me is impaired or adrenaline/norepinephrine production is too high for reasons I won’t specify now (other than what I’ve already mentioned, mildly Elevated BP.

Today is day 1 substituting some of that methylfolate for some folinic acid and will continue to sub it out in increments until it’s mostly folinic acid because of what that other poster said about its effects on wellbeing (5 years ago). Perhaps only a coincidence, but just that 200mcg folinic acid this morning gave me a mild improvement in a couple ways, 1 I’ll leave out but related to the reasons I wouldn’t mention above, but 2, I don’t have any of the wired but tired feeling like I typically would from only getting 5 hours of sleep and feel pretty relaxed. I’ll keep this experiment up.

I also have topical pregnenolone and DHEA on the way to be delivered I will try since those hormones are also low.

Ihave a ridiculously high sensitivity to foods and supplements. I get side effects from everything I take. Even supplementing with pea protein gives me brain fog and a bizarre “out of it” feeling, as well as doses as small as 15mg of zinc, for example. I have a small theory that this is also too much methylfolate and I need to sub it out for folinic acid (that’s my hope anyway). A few days ago, I attempted to switch to the Armour thyroid and even started at only 1/4 tablet I was prescribed and holy smokes...I was so stimulated I could see through walls (obviously joking, but it was very uncomfortable). So, I’ve tabled that experiment for later until after I attempt this folinic acid switch and Topical pregnenolone experiment. As another example of extreme sensitivity, I can’t even take 250mg vitamin C without it making me overstimulated. I’m guessing it causing a downstream Dopamine to NE effect, and suppresses cortisol. Either way, I’m using just 125mg that’s in my multi for now until I can figure out what the hypersensitivity to all chemicals is.

If anyone has any thoughts, I would a greatly appreciate it. I’m not sure why the above I’ve wrote is bolded as it’s not intentional but I can’t fix it.
 
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Pyrrhus

Senior Member
Messages
4,172
Location
U.S., Earth
I’m prescribed telmisartan, testosterone and synthroid (literally last week given Armour to try since it’s been years since I’ve used it).

Wow, that's a serious mix. I hope it is working for you!

I’ve been using 1 cap of Thorne’s 2 Per Day and adding 400mcg methylfolate and having to eat 100g spinach and 5 eggs for breakfast every morning to prevent deficiency symptoms. When I would slack on something, folate deficiency symptoms would return, for example, angular cheilitis.

What happens if you don't take the one capsule of Thorne's 2/day multivitamin? Thorne is a great brand, but their multivitamins can be quite strong for some people.

Even supplementing with pea protein gives me brain fog and a bizarre “out of it” feeling, as well as doses as small as 15mg of zinc, for example.

You're not the only one. Personally, I can't tolerate more than 2-3mg of zinc myself, but that may not be terribly relevant to your situation. (gives me headaches and muscle aches)

As another example of extreme sensitivity, I can’t even take 250mg vitamin C without it making me overstimulated.

Again, I personally can't tolerate more than about 150mg vitamin C, although I have become more tolerant over time. (also gives me headaches)

Best wishes.
 

GreenMachineX

Senior Member
Messages
362
@Pyrrhus
Thanks for the reply. I’m not sure if I was clear, but I’m substituting the synthroid for the Armour, not using both. Just to clarify. And for it working...I don’t know anymore. Literally just yesterday came to the conclusion that my testosterone dose might be too much for me which could be suppressing much needed cortisol and causing the sleep issues and mild blood pressure issues, even though my trough levels are only 550.

if I don’t take the multi, I have zero energy to do normal life and get this weird lump in my throat after eating; I don’t remember the rest of the weird symptoms since it’s been a while. B12 wakes my brain up. And if I don’t take extra folate, I end up getting folate deficient symptoms.

have you had cortisol, thyroid or testosterone tests?
 

Pyrrhus

Senior Member
Messages
4,172
Location
U.S., Earth
if I don’t take the multi, I have zero energy to do normal life and get this weird lump in my throat after eating; I don’t remember the rest of the weird symptoms since it’s been a while. B12 wakes my brain up. And if I don’t take extra folate, I end up getting folate deficient symptoms.

I'm glad you get such a clear positive response from the Thorne multivitamin!

have you had cortisol, thyroid or testosterone tests

Fortunately, my thyroid and testosterone tests came back normal. My daily cortisol profile used to be kind of wacky, but thankfully it's gotten better in recent years...