XMRV and Dr Byron Hyde

biophile

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Forgive me if this has already been covered, I'm a little behind sometimes. In late 2009 Hyde was very doubtful and even cynical about the relevance of XMRV in either ME or CFS, and as far as I know he hasn't changed his mind and I have no idea what he would think of the more recent Lo et al paper on MLV in "CFS":

http://www.nightingale.ca/documents/GoteborgConference.pdf

At the very least, this retrovirus discovery is great free advertising for the Whittemore Peterson Institute. It will possibly bring them in many millions of dollars from, patients willing to be separated from their assets, generous charities and governments before the retrovirus theory is once again thrown into the garbage bin. I should add that incubation period of XMRV is up to 21 days which makes it impossible to cause an epidemic illness. One theory to explain this new finding is that XMRV is a mouse virus and since many research institutes have tens of thousands of mice, cross contamination of specimens are inevitable.
He raised the possibility of financial incentives and laboratory contamination, but judging from my limited knowledge of his work, his preferred argument would be the discrepant incubation period. Can anyone confirm XMRV's alleged incubation period of "up to 21 days", does he have a case or is he missing the possibility that XMRV may be present a long time before the apparent infectious onset of ME and perhaps even be a requisite?
 

Impish

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I read this awhile ago and did some thinking about it. If I understand what his point his, he was thinking that XMRV couldn't cause the clusters of ME/CFS that are often seen due to its incubation period. However, one of the papers I found about MuLV's (this was pre-Altar but I still had a feeling that was the direction this was going in) showed that immunity to MuLV's (which many mice have) can be overcome by catching a different virus. If this particular virus can through an area and a certain % of people were carrying a MuLV(s) it would show up as a cluster (I think).

He does have a point it that there have been many possibilites that have been put forward to cause CFS/ME in the past and none have panned out. That doesn't mean this won't however.
 

George

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We do have a whole thread on this but the short answer is that the incubation period is unknown at this time. No one knows where Dr. Hyde got his information on this incubation period and he's never backed it up so (shrug) Don't know.

From AABB factsheet http://www.xs4all.nl/~maartens/me/RESOURCES/XMRV/XMRV_factsheet_fromWB_010510.pdf
Incubation Period:
• Unknown
Here's one thread -
http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/showthread.php?2652-Dr-Hyde-interview&highlight=Hyde

Here's another thread -
http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/showthread.php?982-Dr.-Hyde-on-XMRV&highlight=Hyde


I think there's one more but I can't remember. Hope this helps.
 
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Dr Hyde doesnt seem to think xmrv can lie dormant in the body untill it is triggered by a stressor.
 

Sunshine

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I can only think Dr Hyde is not happy as he is possibly confusing that people in AMERICA with CFS, some have ME, but aren't allowed to use the name.
Yes the CDC have made CFS a label for anyone to come join the fatigue party, but inside the label CFS, well CFS also contains people with neuro immune disease who actually have ME.

Perhaps Dr hyde doesn't understand this, then his reasons for his statements make sense. Otherwise, they don't make sense as they're illogical.
A strange course of events when he's been practically the only person to stick up for ME patients, show abnormalities and help people.

Very puzzling.

Correction: This data of Hyde's is 10 months old and out of date. (Goteborg Conference was November 2009).
http://www.nightingale.ca/documents/GoteborgConference.pdf

Science has moved on alot since then, PCR was dumped and replaced with culture and antibodies shown to be a more reliable way to detect XMRV.
 

Daffodil

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i dont understand the incubation period argument. other pathogens, such as EBV, can have a long incubation period but you can still have clusters of EBV infections.
 

anciendaze

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i dont understand the incubation period argument. other pathogens, such as EBV, can have a long incubation period but you can still have clusters of EBV infections.
My own position is that there is a possible long incubation period for the gamma retroviruses, but this is not relevant when the immediate symptoms often appear to come from other viral infections. The retrovirus can create a vulnerable population which is then exposed when another stressor places a load on the immune system. Until the stressor appears, you have no idea how many people in a population are in this vulnerable, but asymptomatic, state. If the retrovirus and stressor arrive together, incubation may be short. In other cases, as with infected children with healthy immune systems, symptoms might not appear for years until hormone levels change around puberty, stimulating viral replication. We simply do not know.

This is the kind of potential complication which has dogged simplistic explanations of this illness from day one. Organisms are under no obligation to obey human theories.
 
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I read this some time ago and began to consider it.Dr Hyde has also worked as a relatively recent dispel the idea that chronic fatigue syndrome.This test is useful for the diagnosis of me is false,misleading and unethical.XMRV had spread throughout the body for six days infects the lungs,liver,spleen and lymph nodes.
 

Sing

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Dr. Hyde is giving a series of talks in Australia this week. I copied a news article about this in the thread To the Aussies. Maybe someone here will attend one of these talks or send us more news. Dr. Hyde is a very sharp, experienced hand with ME-CFS, though I do feel he's been placing himself in corners with his opinions and reactions. Let's see what he is saying now.

Personally I feel that part of his ire is about being neglected, all those years working so hard, without funding and mostly on his own, in Canada. I wish someone would name a building after him in honor of what he has already accomplished and bring him back into the fold of ongoing research and analysis.
 

Sing

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Dr. Byron Hyde's talks start 9/14
Quote
Dr Byron Hyde, an eminent Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) and Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (M.E.) researcher and founder of the Nightingale Research Foundation will hold two seminars open to all at the UQCCR Auditorium Herston (http://www.uqccr.uq.edu.au/about-uqc...o-find-us.aspx) on Tuesday the 14th of September, 12:30pm to 2:30pm and 5:30pm to 8:00pm respectively. Dr Hyde’s talk will cover the latest research in CFS and M.E. and will touch on the newly discovered human retrovirus XMRV, and it’s possible role in M.E./CFS. He will also be discussing diagnosis and treatment, and effects on children. A $5 donation (patients) and $10 (non-patients) is requested to cover venue costs for the evening session. Please RSVP Geoffrey Hallman at geoffhallmann@yahoo.com by 5pm Monday the 13th of September.

Dr Byron Hyde and the Nightingale Research Foundation

Dr Hyde is one of the few physicians worldwide whose practice has consisted solely of the investigation of Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (M.E.) and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS)patients since 1984. Dr. Hyde collaborated with over 100 experts to edit and publish in 1992 the first comprehensive and authoritative medical reference book on M.E. and CFS.
In order to widen resources to investigate M.E., CFS and related illnesses,

Dr Hyde founded the Nightingale Research Foundation in 1988 (http://www.nightingale.ca/index.php?target=home). Nightingale is dedicated to explore, understand and treat patients disabled with M.E. and CFS, fibromyalgia-type illnesses and post-immunization injuries.
Any male, female, child or adult can have M.E. or CFS. Those who have M.E. or CFS usually get the illness between the ages of 12-55 and many children are included in the population of those with M.E. and CFS-like disease. Up to 70 per cent of people with M.E. or CFS are female. A disproportionate number of people with the condition are professionals and semiprofessionals in the teaching, medical and associated disciplines.

The Foundation chose the Tiger for its logo since the animal is a natural killer and “one of the first scientific benchmarks of M.E. and CFS was the fact that patients lacked active natural killer cells.” (NRF website) Natural killer (or NK) cells are an essential part of the immune system.

Today, Nightingale’s priorities are individual patient-based research with total body/brain investigation of M.E. and CFS patients as well as the development of a sophisticated database to consolidate these findings for analysis and publication.

The uniqueness of Dr Hyde’s work is in its emphasis on total body mapping of all systems and organs so that he can understand the nature and complexity of the M.E. and CFS patients’ illnesses. Dr Hyde also manages a detailed data base of information based on his investigations into acute onset and gradual onset central nervous system dysfunction associated with fatigue and pain syndrome. This is from individual M.E. and CFS case research of over 3,000 patients and is more detailed than any other such research in North America.

The Foundation also has a separate, longitudinal database with some records spanning over twenty years. Such resources have led to new findings about the illnesses and Dr Hyde believes the vast majority of gradual onset type CFS patients were misdiagnosed with many subsequently found to have other conditions.


http://westside-news.whereilive.com....ak-at-herston/
 

gregf

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I heard Dr Hyde last week about the same time as the XMRV conference.

The talk was mostly about other illness that should be ruled out before an ME Dx.

He is still cold on XMRV. He says ppl with ME have a whole range of viruses test
positive and XMRV is probably just going to be one of these.

24 hours later I read Dr Cheneys report on the macaques and FLv and I am much
more interested in following that.