WPI ethics...

[V99]

Well I trust them. They have not given me reason not to. You can see it in their body language, you can hear it in their voices. They are seeking the truth.

At the end of the day, any money goes back into research. That's spot on in my book.

 

[Veritas Aequitas]

OK, I totally missed the sheeple comment being an insult. So now I feel duly reprimanded

MODERATOR COMMENT- Veritas please read the forum rules. There were some insults in your remarks and that is not allowed on this forum.

I did not call anyone "sheeple". I stated "That is why I think this is important; instead of following the XMRV bandwagon like sheeple, please educate yourselves." I was suggesting that people investigate the issue further for themselves, to gain an understanding of the whole picture, and to educate themselves. We have too much to lose, and after following this issue closely from day 1, I could no longer sit back and bite my tongue. Sorry if you disagree with my opinion, or the facts that I stated.

As for my original post, some might not agree with it, but I don't believe I insulted anyone more than some of the attacks I've read here previously, and the comments I've recieved. I'm sorry, but the majority hollds WPI on a pedestal, and I don't think that is healthy for CFS research or patients. What if XMRV doesn't pan out? People will be devastated on a magnitude 1000 times greater than when Florinef didn't prove to be the "answer". Any non profit research organization should be completely transparent, and should be thoroughly scrutinized if they're soliciting donations from the public, including WPI. In our case, I think they should be examined more closely because they solicit donations from patients who typically struggle financially due to CFS.

I knew that my post would most likely not be well received, but as a 20+ year patient, I have gotten my hopes up in the past, and been taken advantage of by quacks looking to make a quick buck. I'm not saying that this is what WPI is doing, however I think it's extremely important to know all the facts. In this case, WPI and the Whittemores weren't forthcoming about several things until people started asking questions. Their press release on 11/5/09 was cleverly worded, but failed to state that VIP Dx is owned by Harvey Whittemore, that Judy Mikovits is the Vice President, and that Vincent Lombardi is the Treasurer. When people started asking questions, Harvey Whittemore stepped down as the company President on 12/29/09, and was replaced by Bradley Mamer, who is an officer in several of Harvey's companies.

 

[Veritas Aequitas]

Veritas - Who are you?

As some have stated, Harvey Whittemore is a very powerful attorney with A LOT of money, political clout, and influence. I don't want to be threatened or bullied by Harvey (which he has been known to do in the past) for stating my opinion, so I choose to use a pseudonym.

teejkay, who are you?

 

[julius]

As some have stated, Harvey Whittemore is a very powerful attorney with A LOT of money, political clout, and influence. I don't want to be threatened or bullied by Harvey (which he has been known to do in the past) for stating my opinion, so I choose to use a pseudonym.

teejkay, who are you?

Can you cite your sources on this point?

 

[Kati]

In our case, I think they should be examined more closely because they solicit donations from patients who typically struggle financially due to CFS.

They are totally aware that the majority of ME/CFS patients struggle financially. They are saying, if you can, give. Remember that this is a not for profit corporation, and WPI is not as big as you think. So yes, familiar names will be on the board of directors. Familiar friendly faces that want ME/CFS to be history.

I find it very difficult to have the Whittemore criticized in public like this when there is the best chances we have ever had to find a cause to ME/CFS and other neuro-immune diseases. Also it will create employment for Nevada residents and opportunities for researchers and other physicians to train at WPI and learn about immunology and the features of ME/CFS.

Mr and Mrs Whittemore, I can't thank you enough for your work. Keep up the hard work, there are many many people here that is backing you up 100%.

 

[Veritas Aequitas]

Is this mischief making (I shall employ the phrase beloved of Simom Wessely) 'par excellance'?

Abide by the rules or don't post. Using language such as 'wake up' and 'you, you, you' and annoying little insults like 'sheeple' displays a complete lack of empathy with fellow suffers. Either that or this post was indeed, what is known in the UK, as a 'wind up'.

This is not intended to be "mischief making" or a "wind up". I am a patient that has been sick for over 20 years, and I have plenty of empathy for felloe sufferers. Nothing I said was an insult, and I apologize if it was misconstrued that way. Imploring others to "wake up" and do some homework is hardly an insult.

 

[Veritas Aequitas]

Can you cite your sources on this point?

Sorry, I can not cite my sources on this point. As I said, I don't want to be threatened or bullied by Harvey, and by citing my sources, I fear that could happen.

 

[julius]

Sorry, I can not cite my sources on this point. As I said, I don't want to be threatened or bullied by Harvey, and by citing my sources, I fear that could happen.

If you are claiming that someone has been known to threaten and bully people, you really have to back that up with something rock solid. Otherwise it is outright defamation, and totally unacceptable.

 

[Veritas Aequitas]

When I said "Why solicit funds if you have over $2 billion in assets? If my daugter was sick with CFS, and I had unlimited funds, I would have paid for a cure years ago..." I was speaking metaphorically. I'm no fool and don't think there's a cure out there. My point is that if I had $2 billion, $10 million, $500 million, etc and I had a loved one with CFS for so many years, I would have spent every penny I had to figure out an answer to this disease from day 1.

 

[Veritas Aequitas]

If you are claiming that someone has been known to threaten and bully people, you really have to back that up with something rock solid. Otherwise it is outright defamation, and totally unacceptable.

It is my opinion. I choose to not provide sources because I don't want to be threatened, intimidated, or sued for stating my opinion on an internet message board. Sorry.

 

[cfs since 1998]

I'm no fool

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Veritas Aequitas]

Also, I don't think the timing was orchestrated. They were going back and forth with Science trying to get it published. They started much earlier. She was finding the virus as early as January before. By May, I think they were ready, they thought. But it was the reviewers and editor that prevented them from being published by demanding more proof and toned down wording. But, they were smart to hold back from revealing anything until publication and they were smart to go for the big whopper, Science journal. Now, their PR after that, well, a few mistakes have been made. Mikovitz even admitted that. They are under a lot of pressure, people, including CFSAC, want to know more, more, and more, and now their findings are being questioned. So, mistakes have been made under these pressures.

If Mikovits was finding XMRV as early as January, why did Harvey Whittemore found XMRV Diagnostics, LLC on 7/3/08 (http://nvsos.gov/sosentitysearch/CorpDetails.aspx?lx8nvq=jpuvh8GU2C0X6t5ANvP6ZQ%3d%3d&nt7=0)?

 

[Veritas Aequitas]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

I get crucified for allegedly making insulting comments, yet attacks like this are ok? Just because you don't agree with what I posted doesn't give you the right to attack me.

 

[Doogle]

, that Judy Mikovits is the Vice President,

Veritas Aequitas, where can I find this information? I'm very concerned, and I want to see it for myself.

 

[julius]

Veritas....when you say 'which he has been known to do in the past'....you are not stating an opinion. You are presenting something as a fact which is known to others, or is common knowledge.


Could a moderator or admin please delete these statements if no supporting evidence is provided?

 

[Veritas Aequitas]

Veritas Aequitas, where can I find this information? I'm very concerned, and I want to see it for myself.

This information and other details can be found through Dun & Bradstreet, but you must pay for the report. I would be happy to post a pdf of the report here.

If there is a way for this site to host files, I will gladly share the info that proves Judy Mikovits is the Vice President of VIP Dx.

 

[Veritas Aequitas]

Veritas....when you say 'which he has been known to do in the past'....you are not stating an opinion. You are presenting something as a fact which is known to others, or is common knowledge.

Could a moderator or admin please delete these statements if no supporting evidence is provided?

Since I am unable to share my source for this information, I will state that this is only my opinion, and not a "fact". Those that have had business dealings with Harvey Whittemore might know what I'm talking about, but for the sake of this debate, it is my opinion, and not 'fact".

 

[kurt]

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. - Voltaire.
I can't find it, but someone in American history said the best thing you can do to expose erroneous reasoning is to allow it to be heard. (something like that.)
...
Speaking of which.... I wonder, what do you think is the chance that Whittemore, a successful real estate businessman for years, has not at some point ticked someone off. hmmmmm..........

Veritas Aequitas, where can I find this information? I'm very concerned, and I want to see it for myself.

Veritas has only stated information that is available in the public record. I have read where Harvey Whittemore has a history of being publicly accused of using bully tactics. But many lobbyists are accused of using bullying tactics, they file or threaten lawsuits, do other things to influence politics. So you have to use the word 'bully' in that context, otherwise I think people might misunderstand, bullying by a lobbyist is perhaps jargon in this sense.

Whittemore has so much history this thread could go on forever. He is a very colorful character who knows how to get things done. I still do not think this is a productive conversation because what does Harvey Whittemore's past have to do with whether or not XMRV turns out to be important for CFS? This forum is about CFS. If people think this thread should be closed, it should be because it is an unproductive negative topic. I will take it up with the other mods if anyone is worried, let me know.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

MODERATOR NOTE - Warning to 'cfs since...' as you did imply an insult to a forum member. We all knew what you meant by that. And to Veritas, although you did not directly call people here 'sheeple' you did clearly imply that, and in this forum that is considered the same as direct insult. We have learned that people here are good with subtle insults so have to be a bit strict on that.

 

[Navid]

I have read where Harvey Whittemore has a history of being publicly accused of using bully tactics. But many lobbyists are accused of using bullying tactics, they file or threaten lawsuits, do other things to influence politics.

have no idea what is true or not about whittemore/mikovits financial motivations...but i think we cfid's patients could use a big, loud mouth bully who gets things done on our side!!!!!!

Bully on for the cure Harvery!!!!!:victory:

 

[Veritas Aequitas]

Veritas, have you posted this here before, or are you the second person to say this?

Taking great care to speak to the post only, I find this gut-wrenchingly offensive. To say they haven't done enough is so cruel as to seem a joke.

Yesterday was my first time posting anywhere including here. I have followed the internet forums for years and have been sick for over 20 years but have not been inclined to post anything until yesterday. As a patient I can't just watch WPI and all their claims go unchecked. We all have much to lose and I'm trying to be diligent in exposing the truth.

I'm sorry you find my post " gut-wrenchingly offensive". I'm not disputing the Whittemores contribution to the field but I am questioning the shoddy science of the XMRV study and the motives of all involved.