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Would erythema migrans mean chronic lyme

Maria1

Silence speaks volumes
Messages
139
Location
UK
So... I was diagnosed 3 years ago with ME/CFS. I sort of feel like I could disappear into all sorts of holes chasing different diagnoses and treatments with this illness and, for me, battling doctors and going through possible treatments needs to be weighed up in terms of energy spent versus any possible gain. I have treated my hypothyroidism and anaemia and that was worth it but I'm not sure I want to take on anything else.

Right now I'm finding a little more energy just through pacing and looking after myself more than I ever have done. It's a slow unravel.

The thing is, I have had a few tick bites over the years, from holidays in Scottish Highlands (in the days when I could do that sort of holiday). It's not something that ever concerned me.

When I learned about ticks and lyme, I did tell my GP, who ordered the standard NHS test, which came back negative. That was a while back now.

And so to the point of my post, which is something that is bugging me, and I think only you folks will understand...

What I didn't tell my GP is that I may have had an erythma migrans rash. I know that either myself or my ex partner DEFINITELY had that rash, at some point. My memory is so poor it has only come back to me in bits, but I know one of us had it, and that my memory isn't making it up. I have no idea if it was at the time of a tick bite, or if whoever it was had flu type symptoms also. We weren't at all bothered about it- just wondered what it was!

(My ex partner isn't ill with any type of fatigue, as far as I know. It's not something I can easily discuss with him, as he's quite nasty about my illness)

One of my worst symptoms is brain fog. I suppose my question is:

Does having had that rash increase the likelihood of me having chronic lyme now and should I therefore push GP for a referral?

I'm not convinced that, even if I got a diagnosis, based on my history, it's worth treatment with antibiotics anyway. (I have kids to look after and going through any treatment would be very difficult)

Thanks people. I really appreciate any replies. It's such a struggle to post. I spend time drafting imaginary replies to people in my head and am sorry I don't offer more support.
 
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duncan

Senior Member
Messages
2,240
Would an EM from years ago mean chronic lyme?

The short answer is "Not necessarily."

Some tick bites, reportedly, will convey a Bb strain that creates an EM, but will not disseminate beyond that (I think Benjamen Luft demonstrated that, but not sure). Obviously, not all Bb strains act this way; it's the ones that disseminate pathogenically that we need to be concerned about.

Some Bb infections will go so far, including the whole flu-like symptoms presentation, then, according to reports, resolve on their own. They are self-limiting.

Some can present with problems if left untreated - some, even after recommended therapies. This is when you venture into the late stage Lyme and chronic Lyme and PTLDS territories.

I fear I may be forgetting other possibilities; if I am, hopefully others will volunteer what possibilities I've omitted.

You might consider getting tested again. You also seem aware of at least some of the treatment issues. Since you mentioned your belief that treatment would be difficult, I should point out that some studies have suggested oral abx can be just as effective as parenteral therapies in certain cases. I do not know if they are right or wrong.
 
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Maria1

Silence speaks volumes
Messages
139
Location
UK
Thanks @duncan for your reply. I'm not sure I can be bothered pushing for further testing right now but your reply was very helpful.
 

maryb

iherb code TAK122
Messages
3,602
Location
UK
@Maria1

For a start NHS tests are notoriously unreliable despite what the doctors tell you. You have to make your own decisions about whether you want to know definitively whether or not you have Lyme, that means expensive private testing to start with. Or you could take the view that it may be a possibility given that there was a EM rash about and you are still ill. Maybe consider the Cowden protocol or Buhner herbal protocol. Relatively inexpensive.
 
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