Worrying cognitive decline / impairment drug induced reversible?

[Rufous McKinney]

Words just kept rolling out of my fingers tapping the keys almost as quick as I thought and it just came up from scratch... i used to write daily articles for a business magazine, imagine...

Yeah: basically I wrote complex analysis of biological information for the government. And since I seemed to be able to actually write things that made sense, I frequently reviewed the work of my co-workers and had to Fix Their Messes. Astrologically talking about Gemini Mercury talents. I wrote like: 185 page report in my spare time in between the actual major work assignments. No problem Juggle.

I could just ACE tests in college. I figured out college. I went from flunking to straight A's by mimicing a more brilliant roommate (what do you mean, its two weeks before that test and your already studying...hummm: mimic...the result was I got the highest grade in Zoology in Three Labs...I was transformed.)

so thats no longer the case. All that seems profoundly exhausting and must have been in the life of some other person. Life comes in Chapters. This is a different chapter.

 

[Belgiangirl]

sorry this is serious but made me laugh. Like I have so many options (sob, instead). So they wrote demented on both my parents death certificates, not that I believe them...frankly). (they werent', they were just OLD and ready to leave).

And I've been taking Benzos but not like candy. But maybe in my brain it has contributed to what I call Teflon Brain (that just slid right outta there, didn't it?). I take them at nite so I don't wake up at 4 am sick to my stomach. For some reason, they really helped THAT. I recently cut my dose in half and am OK. I"d like to get to zero. But I hate 4 am.

But yet I still pull the name or answer out of the hat when my husband, eight years older, is forgetting names quite badly..but NOR is he demented. All that just gets harder.

Well I complaint to my doctor (GP as well as neurologist who both are younger than myself (34 - them I have aged since this disease hit me ). Both told me as they aged and after stopping university studies they noticed too it got much harder to learn new things.
Tough I hope for them and am quiet sure it i not like in my case: psycology test (I saw here mentioned) I was asked to read words that they showed me (for insurance reasons.... so not a doctor that was like oh while this girl is complaining for 1 year + we need to maybe lets see if it makes indeed any sense or she's just fantasying another symptom to get attention like she did for the last 15 years) I guess it were not even 20 words!! Afterwards I was asked to repeat them ... I would state all of them without any problem for sure 3 years ago.
Now I was like ... "trying to remember, trying to trying to trying to ... but nothing nothing nothing ...
It seems like I don't even know anymore to find the button to let my brain do some work!!


Benzo's: I quit cold turkey. Numerous times. But this year I decided to stop them forever since the cogntion problems.
I used to only take them befòre activities that would take a day: otherwise I would not be able to get trough this day.
Must admit that if like I would meet a friend on the day after I took a benzo it was much more difficult to retrieve what I was wanting to tell her, so our conversations were less 'productive'. I regret deeply because afterwards you feel like oh I forgot to tell her ... and to ask her opinion about ... or how she was with ...
So - only now upon writing I realise there was a clear post-memory loss effect because of the pills...

I really hope I will get back to normal again but I am afraid that doing the effort and not succeeding will make me go mad.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Benzo's: I quit cold turkey. Numerous times. But this year I decided to stop them forever since the cogntion problems.

Its my understanding you want to taper very gradually...and not end taking them abruptly, so be careful! there are threads in PR with folks discussing this...

 

[Belgiangirl]

To my astonishment I discovered these anticholinergic drugs, especially the ones I have taken which are from the highest active classes of drugs, are neurotoxic... not to say the most neurotoxic drugs on earth and all took all of them. Cause my blatter wasn't resting easily I switched between drugs, from oxubutinin to vesicare over Toviaz. For more than 2 years I guess (should ask my pharmacist for more concrete information).

I can't believe nor my GP even though I started mentioning cognitive problems very soon after start up of the medication!!!!! nor my pharmacist ever warned me of this side-effects!!
In the literature it is said to be in elderly, though much more in people with dementia positive genes (in my familiy dementia is present in both sides).

Research to scrutinise if this damage can still be undone, or it will evolve into (vascular) dementia, is still going on! So untill today it seems they don't know anything of this and in fact as I quickly google it it seems that the broader public, especially in the U.S., is just getting aware of this issue...

These pills are even thought to be one of the leading causes of developing dementia... cutting down prescriptions of these neurotoxis are thought to diminish dementia numbers with 10%!!!

So what I am reading is these drugs diminish acetylcholine in the brain (muscanergic transmitters??) greatly. How exactly this works is still unclear to me.
I went to a neurologist and he told me because of my weight (45kgs/BMI 16) whatever drugs I will take it will affect me much more than anyone else (eg persons of normal weight and ill persons often are obese - also because illness often accompanies sedentary lifestyles). They did some quick testing which actually is meant for elderly. Though it was clear there were points in which I was completely disfunctional ... I was shocked myself.

The neurologist kept asking me if I experienced trouble in daily life. Actually I do ... a lot, and it seems to be even more and more while I did STOP with the more heavy anticholinergic at least approximately 1 year ago and switched to betmiga thanks to the GP trainee. After I kept complaining to him he told me in the midst of this year that even betmiga - which is a very new medicine - is said to give confusion so he adviced me to stop.
The thing is, I think he asked me for trouble in daily life because this is the clinical distinction between "Mild Cognitive Impairment" and (starting) dementia ...
I feel so betrayed by my GP. I can't believe this ... what a contrast with my enthusiasm when I heart from him that there existed pills to control my overactive bladder - meaning that I would be able to stoped with the diabolised benzodiazepines, and in fact it seems that they are far more gentle for the brain than this anticholinergics.

Now my problems got extremely clear:
- my vocabulary shrinked enormously and especially worse I don't use daily or are longer than usual I need to look for in my brain - when looking for this words nothing happens in my brain: but they do pop up
- when trying to reason or think logic in my brain for 90% of the time nothing happens, while this used to be automatic all the time (and it might keep me awake sometimes)
- I am more slow at anything
- abstract reasoning: not happening anymore
- following the news and analysing things, instead of writing over it it is even difficult to read the most easy news articles and to fully understand them... I have to read things 2 or 3 times and even then it vanishes immediately
- can't see the bigger picture anymore
- difficulties to get organised
- cooking, doing the household (sth I have not been able to do for years because of my extreme fatigue) is the only useful thing I can do now and I seem to like it because only it means that I can avoid any task that demands higher brain resources

I am scared. Everywhere I read a healthy brain is a precursor for a healthy life with a lot of quality. I can't agree more. It is not only that I can't ever do my job again, I get lost everything, I forget what I just did, .... I am in my early 30ies and I am scared I won't be able to live alone very long anymore if this progresses ...

If anyone does know any solution for this problem or knows more about the nature of this receptor, what damage has actually been done etc or has other tips to let your brain restore, please tell me.
Can't believe this happened to me .... I did so much my best to lead a joyful and happy life without worrying, full of improvement and focussed on getting better or at least try to do my best and not to complain about what I had or get depressed of it, but doing which I couuld, in my case it iwas the thinking and writing act that kept me alive and everyone knowing me as a top intellectual, now everything is gone...

 

[gbells]

Yeah: basically I wrote complex analysis of biological information for the government. And since I seemed to be able to actually write things that made sense, I frequently reviewed the work of my co-workers and had to Fix Their Messes. Astrologically talking about Gemini Mercury talents. I wrote like: 185 page report in my spare time in between the actual major work assignments. No problem Juggle.

I could just ACE tests in college. I figured out college. I went from flunking to straight A's by mimicing a more brilliant roommate (what do you mean, its two weeks before that test and your already studying...hummm: mimic...the result was I got the highest grade in Zoology in Three Labs...I was transformed.)

so thats no longer the case. All that seems profoundly exhausting and must have been in the life of some other person. Life comes in Chapters. This is a different chapter.

The brain changes are real. ME patients have decreased brain mass in their frontal lobes on MRI.

Researchers using a combination of different imaging techniques have found structural abnormalities in the brains of people with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), according to a new study published online in the journal Radiology. The results suggest a potential role for imaging in diagnosing and treating the condition.

...
When they compared results between the CFS patients and the controls, they found that the CFS group had slightly lower white matter volume, meaning there was less overall white matter in the brain. The CFS group also had abnormally high fractional anisotropy (FA) values—a DTI measure of the diffusion of water— in a specific white matter tract called the right arcuate fasciculus, suggesting something was going on in the white matter in the right hemisphere.

"Within CFS patients, right anterior arcuate FA increased with disease severity," Dr. Zeineh said. "The differences correlated with their fatigue—the more abnormal the tract, the worse the fatigue."

The results suggest that FA at the right arcuate fasciculus may serve as a biomarker for CFS that can help track the disease.

The imaging study also found abnormalities among CFS patients at the two points in the brain that connect the right arcuate fasciculus. Each connection point, known as a cortex, was thicker in CFS patients.

"This is the first study to look at white matter tracts in CFS and correlate them with cortical findings," Dr. Zeineh said. "It's not something you could see with conventional imaging."

Although the study involved only 15 CFS patients, the technique already shows tremendous promise as a diagnostic tool for identifying people with CFS, according to Dr. Zeineh.

"We used automated techniques to look at these tracts and were able to achieve 80 percent accuracy for CFS detection," he said.

https://press.rsna.org/timssnet/media/pressreleases/14_pr_target.cfm?ID=772

 

[gbells]

The arcuate fasciculus (Latin: curved bundle) is a bundle of axons that connects Broca's area and Wernicke's area in the brain. It is an association fiber tract connecting caudal temporal cortex and inferior frontal lobe.

Broca's area. Broca's area is involved in the expressive aspects of spoken and written language (production of sentences constrained by the rules of grammar and syntax).

Wernicke's area is the region of the brain that is important for language development. It is located in the temporal lobe on the left side of the brain and is responsible for the comprehension of speech, while Broca's area is related to the production of speech.

I know when my ME was severe I had a lot of trouble with word finding. This explains it. Brain damage in those areas.

 

[Belgiangirl]

I took: choline and inositol, phosphatidylcholine, and various supporting nutrients, including a multivitamin and fish oil.

Now, I’m not recovered... but, put it this way, I’m reading War and Peace and my brain is loving every minute of it. My brain gets very fatigued sometimes, but overall it seems to be improving. I really needed choline. I can provide more details if it helps, but just posting this quickly as it’s getting late and I need to rest!

I still sneak around here hoping that anyone can offer a clue for what to do in our situation.

As written above I got myself phosphatidylserine and huperzine A.

The strange thing is that after stopping the anticholinergics and also betmiga (which isn't even an anticholinergic but still is medication anti OAB) I did make progression: making conversations got possible again and I retrieved words more easy (in opposite of a friend has just told a whole story complete at you in a restaurant and waits for your answer: you wonder what you should say - upon doing that, you lose the memory of the story so you have no idea what she just was telling you so vividly anymore for the last 15 minutes and what has been big part of her life for the last weeks/month (even years) and than you have no clue anymore what to say at all... watching her looking at you like you just betrayed or shocked her: like if you were thinking about something else or mentally completely disengaged because of lack of interest about what she was telling.... and you sitting there not able to bring a word out, because no matter how hard you try: you don't find words, and to say what? You don't find any thoughts to express...

This extreme edge - actually disabling you copletely to have any useful social interaction!!! - got off me. Though when I want to say something i quickly loss my clue completely or when someone else says something i really have to focus enormously to keep on track...
but I felt I did improved.

Then I took the both medications I ordered myself: phospatidylserine and huperzine A.
As mentioned: I got enormous headache and I felt afterwards I had to start over from zero...

Now I do sometimes take them because I hope I can reach improvment but I don't dare to take them on a daily basis and got quiet scared to make matters worse...
Also my neurologist says apart from expercise and healthy living there is nothing one can do....

 

[splusholia]

I still sneak around here hoping that anyone can offer a clue for what to do in our situation.

As written above I got myself phosphatidylserine and huperzine A.

The strange thing is that after stopping the anticholinergics and also betmiga (which isn't even an anticholinergic but still is medication anti OAB) I did make progression: making conversations got possible again and I retrieved words more easy (in opposite of a friend has just told a whole story complete at you in a restaurant and waits for your answer: you wonder what you should say - upon doing that, you lose the memory of the story so you have no idea what she just was telling you so vividly anymore for the last 15 minutes and what has been big part of her life for the last weeks/month (even years) and than you have no clue anymore what to say at all... watching her looking at you like you just betrayed or shocked her: like if you were thinking about something else or mentally completely disengaged because of lack of interest about what she was telling.... and you sitting there not able to bring a word out, because no matter how hard you try: you don't find words, and to say what? You don't find any thoughts to express...

This extreme edge - actually disabling you copletely to have any useful social interaction!!! - got off me. Though when I want to say something i quickly loss my clue completely or when someone else says something i really have to focus enormously to keep on track...
but I felt I did improved.

Then I took the both medications I ordered myself: phospatidylserine and huperzine A.
As mentioned: I got enormous headache and I felt afterwards I had to start over from zero...

Now I do sometimes take them because I hope I can reach improvment but I don't dare to take them on a daily basis and got quiet scared to make matters worse...
Also my neurologist says apart from expercise and healthy living there is nothing one can do....

If it were me I would perhaps try a more gentle way to increase choline, e.g. phosphatidylcholine, or choline bitartrate, and start at a low dose. I’ve not tried Huperzine or phosphatidylserine yet as I’ve read about some people reacting badly to them. I have a bad cold at the minute and my brain isn’t working properly - sorry I can’t be more help! (I’ll read your post again when feeling better)

 

[Belgiangirl]

Update - hope someone can learn from this or someone can help me to advance to the next stage into this (happily now I found a neurologist who probably wants to help me and go down the pathroad to investigate this issue):

I improved making it at least possible to scrutinise literature on paper base level and making some sense out of it.
Also I noticed that upon reading the news there is some more information that I keep on holding and I forget few things.

BUT I am (34 yoa still) on:
- Cogniton focus
- magnesium
- lecithin 1200 mg (actually always took this, was not related to my brain problem)
- sometimes huperzine A but not systematically, i might have taken 2 over time

I also started on Carlsons fish oil omega 3: 1200mg
curcumin, turmeric, vit D 5000 and vit D complex from thorne labs.
So I invested in some high quality (I guess?) supplements, I do not take them for a long time yet but gradually I started to notice some improvements or at least not a worsening of my state and I think my vocabulary also expanded a bit and I feel I am making memories again though it is unclear if I will still have them over 6 months...

Okay but now I ordered also:
- citicoline / GDP choline (patented form of fosfatidylcholine which is better absorbable to the brain or can penetrate the BBB at least?) 250mg

Unplanned I started with it since I had extremely bad cognition days (but must say these were stressy days with not even enough time to eat properly)
--> this night and still today I have a big headache, am lethargic, feel zombie, feel like a brik is in my head and I want to rest and suffer alone and in peace and not able of doing anything, and blood is pumping hard trough my head...

Citicholine is supposed to help according to the literature this is far from an overdos. WebMD advices doses up to 2000mgs/day as safe. Tough for good cognition smaller doses are adviced in some studies on long term.



I also ordered piracetam (I had to read for ages untill I found out this is a cholinergic so possibly counteracting the anticholinergic that I took!!) and I am doubting to order alpha GDP as I hear even more good of this.

My bloodwork came back low for pregnolone sulphate: according to google has to do sth with memory but I can't make any sense of it ...

These last 3 things I did not took in yet.

Anyone?


I am afraid that after this new choline headache type I have to start over from scratch ...
I am happy that again I seemed to improve steadily, but then the crash worries me and I don't know what I am going to get back and what happens with the information that I learn today for example?

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I'm struggling back from a kind of dismal place, so I have no detailed input, but generally speaking, it might be good to ride out this reaction you're having until it passes, pretty much, before you undertake any more experiments. And I applaud your willingness to experiment until you find the right combination, or even just the one right thing.

For many of us, it's pretty much our only hope. Good for you !!!

As for the choline, it may be the wrong type, or you might have taken too large a dose for your fragile system right now, even if it was a very small one. Never can tell what's going to cause a reaction, even in minute doses.

I'll try to come back when my brain is firing on at least 2 cylinders. Right now, it's barely utilizing one.

Keep on punchin', yes?

 

[Wishful]

@Belgiangirl since you're trying to treat neurological symptoms, I suggest trying the various substances sublingually, to maybe improve transport into your brain. For me, LDN was ~30% more effective that way, and cumin will block my PEM even if I don't swallow it (have to hold it in my mouth for several minutes though). If some of these treatments have poor transport via the digestive system, they might be more effective sublingually.

You just have to hope that the effective treatment doesn't taste really awful.

 

[KenJT]

Hi All,
I was randomly looking through the posts when this one caught my eye. I too feel in some ways what you have described and searching for answers.
For me something happened about 2 years ago when i was on anti depressant medication and a so called fat burner (Yes i know..Stupid) I remember waking up with this huge pressure in my head and the feeling i was going to pass out. I didn't go to the hospital but i did see the doctor who just shrugged his shoulders and prescribed me an anti-dizziness medication (I cannot remember what it is but i do know i didn't take it as i wanted to find out what the actual issue was. It was this time were i noticed my mental clarity had diminished and i felt dumbed down. Common tasks seemed to be difficult. I even once forgot i was driving a manual car and come to a intersection and stalled it because my brain had switched off. These things were all just regular daily occurrences that i kept hidden from fellow workers etc.
Previously before this i used to suffer from Panic attacks and depression but this was something different altogether although i do believe that my alcohol addiction did nothing to help this.
The pressure in head and dumbing down is a daily occurrence despite doctors blood tests telling me I'm fine apart from a very high serum b12 level. I have been supplementing with Methyl B12 and Methylfolate which has stopped the panic attacks and depression however i still battle the cognitive decline and pressure in the head daily. I feel that the problem is the minerals and vitamins are all out of whack as sometimes b1 will help and other times b2 will help. Other times i need magnesium and i literally feel like a giant pill bottle and hate the fact that i carry a bag that is filled with about 10 different vitamins and supps anytime i go anywhere.
Through my own testing i have found supplementing the following helps:
Methyl B12
Metylfolate
ATP
Vit D
K2
Fish Oil
Evening Primrose Oil
Magnesium
Adeno B12
Coq10
PQQ
Seeking Health B minus
Holisitic Health all in one
Phosphatidyl Serine complex
Digestive Enzymes
Pre Biotics
ProBiotics
Amino Energy
Tyrosine
Potassium
When i say helps it means i may get 1, 2 or even 3 hours before i get the decline. I feel groggy on wake up and take the All in one, Vit D, K2, ATP, Methyl Fol, Methyl B12, PQQ and feel OK for a few hours and after that i spend the rest of the day combating the issue.
I think there are definite problems in my krebs cycle as the amino energy supplement does give me a good increase in mood and i have also noticed that i retain the B2 from the B minus vitamin if i take it about half an hour prior to the B Minus pill. Caffeine seems to flush out B2 for me generally.
Anyways im hoping someone may see this and might give them a missing link etc for themselves but for me i feel like I'm clutching at straws.
Some days i just don't want to take anything due to being so feed up with it all.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

For me something happened about 2 years ago when i was on anti depressant medication and a so called fat burner (Yes i know..Stupid)

Uh, no, just human .....

i do believe that my alcohol addiction did nothing to help this.

Alcohol has a pretty devastating effect on GABAa and, I think, GABAb receptors, similar to benzos. There might be a link or a hint for you in that. Not sure. Foggy again today.

 

[KenJT]

Uh, no, just human .....

Alcohol has a pretty devastating effect on GABAa and, I think, GABAb receptors, similar to benzos. There might be a link or a hint for you in that. Not sure. Foggy again today.

I agree, a little hindsight goes a long way. I was just too young and dumb. I know for a fact i don't react well with Glutamine so that would suggest my Glutamine/Gaba Ratio is out of whack. Supplementing with GABA from what i have read would be useless as it doesn't cross the Blood/Brain Barrier unless you have leaky gut.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Supplementing with GABA from what i have read would be useless as it doesn't cross the Blood/Brain Barrier unless you have leaky gut.

The jury's kinda out on that, still. There are GABA receptors all over your body, esp in the digestive system, but also the liver, lungs, kidneys, and I'm forgetting a few.

Oral GABA won;t have the same dramatic effect as GABA that can cross the BBB, but it might be worth a try. Once your GABA/Glutamate is out of balance, things can get pretty unpleasant pretty fast, and it's possible that feeding your system more BBB-crossing GABA could make things even less tenable, continuing to exhaust and down regulate your GABA receptors.

Magnesium is a great help in this, particularly the better absorbed types like Mag GLycinate, which helped me enoumously with a GABA/Glutamate issue.

Here's hoping any of this also helps you ....

 

[KenJT]

The jury's kinda out on that, still. There are GABA receptors all over your body, esp in the digestive system, but also the liver, lungs, kidneys, and I'm forgetting a few.

Oral GABA won;t have the same dramatic effect as GABA that can cross the BBB, but it might be worth a try. Once your GABA/Glutamate is out of balance, things can get pretty unpleasant pretty fast, and it's possible that feeding your system more BBB-crossing GABA could make things even less tenable, continuing to exhaust and down regulate your GABA receptors.

Magnesium is a great help in this, particularly the better absorbed types like Mag GLycinate, which helped me enoumously with a GABA/Glutamate issue.

Here's hoping any of this also helps you ....

Thanks for that info about GABA and the BBB.
I forgot to add i do take a huge amount of magnesium. It is a blend of about 5 different types. One possible clue was if i just took the recommend dosage the brain fog would increase but if i took double the amount it did go away for a bit. That said some days are hit and miss.
I am thinking i will be doing an OATS test and Amino acid profile in the near future as my current doctor isn't very helpful.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I forgot to add i do take a huge amount of magnesium.

I found the same thing. In my case, tho, huge amounts taken in one or even three doses did diddley-whomp.

It started working when I took small, 50 mg doses at very close intervals, usually about every 45 to 60 minutes until the symptoms subsided, then every 90 -120 minutes thereafter.

Because of where in the intestines it's absorbed, mag glycinate doesn't cause the usual unpleasant gastro effects that most all other forms of mag do, which is one of the reasons I settled on it.

 

[Belgiangirl]

Hi All,
I was randomly looking through the posts when this one caught my eye. I too feel in some ways what you have described and searching for answers.
For me something happened about 2 years ago when i was on anti depressant medication and a so called fat burner (Yes i know..Stupid) I remember waking up with this huge pressure in my head and the feeling i was going to pass out. I didn't go to the hospital but i did see the doctor who just shrugged his shoulders and prescribed me an anti-dizziness medication (I cannot remember what it is but i do know i didn't take it as i wanted to find out what the actual issue was. It was this time were i noticed my mental clarity had diminished and i felt dumbed down. Common tasks seemed to be difficult. I even once forgot i was driving a manual car and come to a intersection and stalled it because my brain had switched off. These things were all just regular daily occurrences that i kept hidden from fellow workers etc.
Previously before this i used to suffer from Panic attacks and depression but this was something different altogether although i do believe that my alcohol addiction did nothing to help this.
The pressure in head and dumbing down is a daily occurrence despite doctors blood tests telling me I'm fine apart from a very high serum b12 level. I have been supplementing with Methyl B12 and Methylfolate which has stopped the panic attacks and depression however i still battle the cognitive decline and pressure in the head daily. I feel that the problem is the minerals and vitamins are all out of whack as sometimes b1 will help and other times b2 will help. Other times i need magnesium and i literally feel like a giant pill bottle and hate the fact that i carry a bag that is filled with about 10 different vitamins and supps anytime i go anywhere.
Through my own testing i have found supplementing the following helps:
Methyl B12
Metylfolate
ATP
Vit D
K2
Fish Oil
Evening Primrose Oil
Magnesium
Adeno B12
Coq10
PQQ
Seeking Health B minus
Holisitic Health all in one
Phosphatidyl Serine complex
Digestive Enzymes
Pre Biotics
ProBiotics
Amino Energy
Tyrosine
Potassium
When i say helps it means i may get 1, 2 or even 3 hours before i get the decline. I feel groggy on wake up and take the All in one, Vit D, K2, ATP, Methyl Fol, Methyl B12, PQQ and feel OK for a few hours and after that i spend the rest of the day combating the issue.
I think there are definite problems in my krebs cycle as the amino energy supplement does give me a good increase in mood and i have also noticed that i retain the B2 from the B minus vitamin if i take it about half an hour prior to the B Minus pill. Caffeine seems to flush out B2 for me generally.
Anyways im hoping someone may see this and might give them a missing link etc for themselves but for me i feel like I'm clutching at straws.
Some days i just don't want to take anything due to being so feed up with it all.

How long where you taking the medication you are talking about?

To me from what I have learnt:
antidepressants MAY BE anticholinergic
Fat burner: no idea what this can be.
Alcohol as mentioned is not good for brain health, it is the same as benzos as mentioned. I unfortunately took them too because of huges tressor that are quiet hallucinant (discrimination by my university).

Antidepressants even IF they might be anticholinergic they are not hihgly anticholinergic as blatter medication is - unless you took other anticholinergics as well maybe as sleep aids, antihistamins, bronchodilatators, anti-acidita for the stomach,...? - so I am still more of a zombie if that may give you any comfort.

Did some neuropsycholgoical testing lately and it was so shocking to see that my brain is like far gone... even tough this tests are made for an average population and my intelligence could be easily called highly intelligent or gifted, still deficits popped up making me even below average, so below the average of a normal, non or averagely educated population.
I am so shocked ...

This benzo's I always quit cold turkey. I am not addiction prone. Could this have been adding up the damage?
My neurologist seems to suspect an interaction between "benzoed brain" and "anticholinergic brain"???
Still these meds are been told not to prescribe them anymore to older adults OR FRAIL ADULTS!! Since my weight is extremely low and I am now ANA positive /CFS apparently I am one of those frail adults. It is so shocking i complaint so many times of this cognitive deficits to my GP and he NEVER took me off them or even told me to suspect them! I was too far gone already to make any link...

I will try to make more sense of your meds later, for me what I am trying now:

- fosfatidylserine 500 mg --> headache like crazy
- citicholin 250mg -> headache like crazy
- huperzin A -> still need to study it
- piracetam 600mg today 1st dose -> felt like i needed to go to bed straight as if like I was drugged!!!
- vitamin B complex
- vit D 5000mg
- Vit B12 also oversuppleted in me! I oversuppleted myself apparently exactly DURING
- L-carnitine
- magnesium (i always take this)
- quercetin
- NAC if I think of it (...) caz I take it in the evening
- Omega3 supplement
- Co enzym Q10 (ubuiqunol)
- plaquenil and montelukast (non herbal ones)
- cogniton (mix with ginkgo biloba and also some cholines etc)
- curcumin
- turmeric
- lecithin

Can't say I am blown away by any results yet.......

While I subjectively feelt like my memory got better and things improved, it all crashed after taking fosfatidylserine or -choline now afterwards I got a crazy headache! :-S
This is so shocking since this MUST help normally and I took way unter the maximum dose...
Nomal choline (lecithin) is no problem and doesn't give this madly headache.


Why would cognitive enhancers give me headache and then make me feel like I lost everything I built up for the past months and like I have to start over from scratch? I tell you there were many words popping back up in my head, I even could remember all the words that I recently searched for and remembered back, so I had a list in my mind which I could hang on to to tell myself things were not that bad and clearly improving and I could use this words again in any normal interaction, but even this list is gone completely ...
Taking this fosfatidyl-choline or -serine seems to be a reset in my mind to blank...

I feel I need to experiment on myself and I am in this alone without any guiding hand, which is very scary.

One MD tested pregnolone sulfate in my blood: this came back as a shortage.
What now? I only see this MD in february. Should I take pregnolone?

All day long I got confronted with how much I have lost: daily tasks are difficult to me, I forget what I was doing, where I put things, all the time. I am surprised with what I find in my fridge, even my recognition of things is damaged which is far beyond even normal aging brain deficit (to be expected only subjectively by patients around 50-60?? and possibly especially those with extreme bad physical condition talking obesity, hypercholesterol, high blood pressure, ...). I am so shocked and afraid for what the future will brign..

You know what is strange? I still have these killing pills in my closet here: toviaz, oxybutinin, vesicare, ...
What if I would take them?
I can go live in a facility for elderly for sure... That so scares the hell out of me. Suppose I am mad or get crazy and take them just because I would rather forget it all and not know of anything of this anymore, than live like this? I am sorry for the heavy stuff just right before christmas.
I don't take this so heavily all the time but I try to push it back in my head and look for distraction and not go with the flow in order to prevent depressive thoughts, esp as long as no help or support is available.

Please if anyone could find any clue about this or knows an excellent top neurologist or doctor who can help me with this (they say a hormone doctor on internet but should I go to a gynaecologist then or endocrinologist?), please tell me. Thank you very much.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I don't take this so heavily all the time but I try to push it back in my head and look for distraction and not go with the flow in order to prevent depressive thoughts, esp as long as no help or support is available.

It appears we simply signed up for one of the toughest things ever. Like one could be surfing a modest wave, or erratic wave patterns, but in our case, we got towed out to that GIANT Wall of OVERHWHELMING engulfment.

The only way I make it thru this is to more or less consider today, as about it. Thinking about all the possible future scenarios is just entirely beyond my capacity currently. Nothing here is the Plan. Never did I imagine being this incapacitated and mentally fragile. Emotionally intensified. Physically wiped out.

Pondering past events- is something I certainly can still do fortunately. However, I now find that when I ponder "recent" past events, is all tainted by the worsening of this illness. So I then recall that only six months ago, I somehow managed to go walk 6 blocks, now its 150 feet and regretable. 2 years ago I read a library book. Now, I don't read more than about three paragraphs.

My brother (whom I hardly see, because I can't go off and visit people)...sent one of those Xmas letter updates. What they did over the year, the major developments etc. I've not actually read it yet. Because he printed it in some weird font that literally, my eyes can't read it. So now will I be asking him to send this over in Times Roman? So I can actually read your Xmas message? Perplexing. I never understand how I should interface with others and this illness. So mostly, I don't see people.

 

[KenJT]

How long where you taking the medication you are talking about?

To me from what I have learnt:
antidepressants MAY BE anticholinergic
Fat burner: no idea what this can be.
Alcohol as mentioned is not good for brain health, it is the same as benzos as mentioned. I unfortunately took them too because of huges tressor that are quiet hallucinant (discrimination by my university).

Antidepressants even IF they might be anticholinergic they are not hihgly anticholinergic as blatter medication is - unless you took other anticholinergics as well maybe as sleep aids, antihistamins, bronchodilatators, anti-acidita for the stomach,...? - so I am still more of a zombie if that may give you any comfort.

Did some neuropsycholgoical testing lately and it was so shocking to see that my brain is like far gone... even tough this tests are made for an average population and my intelligence could be easily called highly intelligent or gifted, still deficits popped up making me even below average, so below the average of a normal, non or averagely educated population.
I am so shocked ...

This benzo's I always quit cold turkey. I am not addiction prone. Could this have been adding up the damage?
My neurologist seems to suspect an interaction between "benzoed brain" and "anticholinergic brain"???
Still these meds are been told not to prescribe them anymore to older adults OR FRAIL ADULTS!! Since my weight is extremely low and I am now ANA positive /CFS apparently I am one of those frail adults. It is so shocking i complaint so many times of this cognitive deficits to my GP and he NEVER took me off them or even told me to suspect them! I was too far gone already to make any link...

I will try to make more sense of your meds later, for me what I am trying now:

- fosfatidylserine 500 mg --> headache like crazy
- citicholin 250mg -> headache like crazy
- huperzin A -> still need to study it
- piracetam 600mg today 1st dose -> felt like i needed to go to bed straight as if like I was drugged!!!
- vitamin B complex
- vit D 5000mg
- Vit B12 also oversuppleted in me! I oversuppleted myself apparently exactly DURING
- L-carnitine
- magnesium (i always take this)
- quercetin
- NAC if I think of it (...) caz I take it in the evening
- Omega3 supplement
- Co enzym Q10 (ubuiqunol)
- plaquenil and montelukast (non herbal ones)
- cogniton (mix with ginkgo biloba and also some cholines etc)
- curcumin
- turmeric
- lecithin

Can't say I am blown away by any results yet.......

While I subjectively feelt like my memory got better and things improved, it all crashed after taking fosfatidylserine or -choline now afterwards I got a crazy headache! :-S
This is so shocking since this MUST help normally and I took way unter the maximum dose...
Nomal choline (lecithin) is no problem and doesn't give this madly headache.


Why would cognitive enhancers give me headache and then make me feel like I lost everything I built up for the past months and like I have to start over from scratch? I tell you there were many words popping back up in my head, I even could remember all the words that I recently searched for and remembered back, so I had a list in my mind which I could hang on to to tell myself things were not that bad and clearly improving and I could use this words again in any normal interaction, but even this list is gone completely ...
Taking this fosfatidyl-choline or -serine seems to be a reset in my mind to blank...

I feel I need to experiment on myself and I am in this alone without any guiding hand, which is very scary.

One MD tested pregnolone sulfate in my blood: this came back as a shortage.
What now? I only see this MD in february. Should I take pregnolone?

All day long I got confronted with how much I have lost: daily tasks are difficult to me, I forget what I was doing, where I put things, all the time. I am surprised with what I find in my fridge, even my recognition of things is damaged which is far beyond even normal aging brain deficit (to be expected only subjectively by patients around 50-60?? and possibly especially those with extreme bad physical condition talking obesity, hypercholesterol, high blood pressure, ...). I am so shocked and afraid for what the future will brign..

You know what is strange? I still have these killing pills in my closet here: toviaz, oxybutinin, vesicare, ...
What if I would take them?
I can go live in a facility for elderly for sure... That so scares the hell out of me. Suppose I am mad or get crazy and take them just because I would rather forget it all and not know of anything of this anymore, than live like this? I am sorry for the heavy stuff just right before christmas.
I don't take this so heavily all the time but I try to push it back in my head and look for distraction and not go with the flow in order to prevent depressive thoughts, esp as long as no help or support is available.

Please if anyone could find any clue about this or knows an excellent top neurologist or doctor who can help me with this (they say a hormone doctor on internet but should I go to a gynaecologist then or endocrinologist?), please tell me. Thank you very much.

I was only taking the medication for approx 1 month. Even though i have problems with Folate and B12 etc. I feel the brain fog and pressure in the head seemingly is ATP related. I still go to the gym and while i admit i shouldn't take a preworkout i do and i have noticed that the brain fog and pressure is gone when i take the supplement (I crash later though) but this may be a clue for myself. I do know there is issues with my Krebs cycle and that is another clue however i take all the required supplements. I have noticed that taking trace minerals can make my head feel worse so i am wondering if i am not taking enough or too much.